Dr Holly Wood, MS., PhD, LMFT, CST
In this episode of the Intimacy Lab podcast, Michelle Renee welcomes Dr. Holly Wood to discuss various themes surrounding intimacy, therapy, and personal growth. They reflect on the importance of vulnerability in therapy and the intersection of sex and trauma. The conversation also touches on personal experiences with tattoos, parenting reflections, and the significance of apologies in relationships. Additionally, they explore the launch of Dr. Holly's YouTube channel, The Hollywood Sexologist, and the impact of GLP-1 medications on sexual desire.
Dr Holly Wood, MS., PhD, LMFT, CST is a sex therapist based in San Clemente, California. You can learn more at https://www.thehollywoodsexologist.com/ and on social media at https://www.instagram.com/thehollywoodsexologist/
Michelle Renee (she/her) is a San Diego-based Human Connection Coach and Cuddle Therapist. Michelle's websites arehttps://meetmichellerenee.com andhttps://humanconnectioncoach.com and she can be found on social media athttps://instagram.com/meetmichellerenee.
If you’d like to ask a question for Michelle to answer on an episode, https://www.meetmichellerenee.com/podcast
Join us for the Aftershow at IntimacyLabPodcast.com
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Rough Transcript:
Michelle Renee (she/her) (00:21)
Welcome back to the Intimacy Lab podcast. We are starting season three, which sounds kind of nuts to me because it feels like I just did this on a whim not that long ago, but here we are. I'm going to be joined today by Dr. Holly Wood, and that is her real name, as I've wondered sometimes. And I heard you say that the other day and I was like, that's good to know. was like, you live in Southern California and your name is Holly Wood. That's so perfect. I'll ask you more questions about that, I am sure.
Dr. Holly Wood (00:45)
you
Michelle Renee (she/her) (00:49)
I'm joined by my dog Dax today because he doesn't want to be away from mama. So if you're watching this on video, yes, my dog has no eyes. It's not that he's sleeping. Some people have asked me that. Is your dog sleeping? How do you know when he's sleeping? I don't know when he's sleeping. But he is very close to mama. What have we done here? I don't think I've recorded a new episode since maybe April of 2024. So I thought I'd do a quick update.
Maybe these are updates for you, Holly, too. I don't know. We were on social media together. So I went to the innovations and psychotherapy conference in Anaheim in October and did a table with Cuddlist and nobody asked me if I have sex with my clients. And it was so
Dr. Holly Wood (01:21)
Yeah, yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:41)
lovely. Like the contrast of surrogate partner world and even in the cuddle world, people think cuddle is like code for for like sex work and it's it's not it can be I suppose but to sit in a conference with therapists who know nothing about surrogate partner therapy because they're not sex therapists and even let's be real a lot of sex therapists don't know anything about surrogate partner therapy either. I didn't spend any time explaining what I don't do.
Dr. Holly Wood (01:48)
you
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (02:12)
And I was like, this is kind of cool. also, gosh, it leaves me wondering if I have big decisions to make, right? I left there going, do I need to divorce surrogate partner therapy? Is this becoming a liability since I'm not working on the erotic side of the work? And after about six weeks, I made sure I slowed everything down and didn't make a rash decision.
Dr. Holly Wood (02:19)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (02:34)
I hit the space, I get to a place of like knowing where everything in my body settles when I know I've made the right decision, like I've got to the conclusion. And I hit that in like mid November. It was just like, one thing was said about not wanting to have my work compared in relationship to sex. Like, where am I on the spectrum of am I having sex with my clients or not having sex with my clients?
Dr. Holly Wood (02:43)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Michelle Renee (she/her) (03:02)
And I thought my work has nothing to do with sex at this point. I don't need to be compared to where I am with sex. It doesn't make sense. So it felt a little masochistic if I was to stick with the title of Surrogate Partners. So I dropped it. And it's been a really good decision so far. Shortly after that, I also became the co-owner of Cuddlist, which I describe as like a racehorse being held back for like the last nine or 10 years.
of like, I was operations manager for them, like 2016 to 2020. And it was always that I don't want to put all my creative energy into somebody else's business. And so I'd hold back quite a bit. And now that I'm finally adopted the baby, I get to put a bunch of creative energy into it and it feels super invigorating and it's awesome. So that's kind of how I rolled into 2025 was what do I call myself now? And I just went back to human connection coach.
Dr. Holly Wood (03:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thanks
Michelle Renee (she/her) (04:00)
Right? Because
it's what I do. It's just I don't work in the erotic side. It's still people to people and the lab, right, of learning how to people better with other people. So that's my update. Miss Holly. Doctor Hollywood. We've completed the thing. Yeah. Do you want to do an introduction?
Dr. Holly Wood (04:07)
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yes. Finally, yes, we completed the thing.
Sure, sure, can share a little bit about myself. Yeah, so my name is Dr. Hollywood, as Michelle mentioned, that is my real name. I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified sex therapist and newer doctor of human sexuality, located in South Orange County, San Clemente, California, where I have...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (04:31)
Go for it.
Dr. Holly Wood (04:52)
private practice and do a lot of work on the intersection of sex and trauma. So mostly working with survivors of sexual violence, but doing the whole gamut of sex therapy for individuals and couples.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (05:05)
I love our overlap in that, even though we've not shared a client. I'm just going to say yet. I imagine it will probably happen at some point. But so much of my work is in sexual survivors, sexual violence survivors too. And maybe we'll get to talk about that a little bit. Who knows what's going to come up today? Because what I love about this podcast is I do nothing to prepare, though I know you, right? Like I'm not coming in. We're not complete strangers. But we're not exactly like the you're not the person I hang out with on a Friday.
Dr. Holly Wood (05:10)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (05:35)
We've run across each other in person. I think I've come to one event for the Orange County AASECT group up in Irvine. And then we saw each other at the AASECT conference in 2023. You didn't go to 2024, right?
Dr. Holly Wood (05:42)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
No, I did not.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (05:53)
Yeah, but
I remember when we ran across each other in San Francisco, it was like, wait, is this the first time we're actually meeting in person? It didn't feel that way, right? Because we've been on enough virtual things together, so.
Dr. Holly Wood (06:00)
in person.
Exactly, and virtual meetings and being like social media friends and bouncing back and forth. Like I feel like I knew you more. And then I'm like, wait, you see someone in like three dimension for the first time. It's like, wait a minute, is that?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (06:11)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
have we not done this before? Like, I run into that all the time. So we're gonna play the We're Not Really Stranger Cards today. One day they're gonna sponsor this podcast. I don't know when it will happen. I regularly tag them in my things and they should totally sponsor me. But anyways, I do love the We're Not Really Stranger Cards. They've stayed my favorite so far, though I don't...
Dr. Holly Wood (06:37)
They should, they should definitely.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (06:48)
I don't go crazy in picking up new like new card decks of different things, but I did see this on my Instagram. Partners are human, a game that deepens your romantic relationship. And I thought, I wonder how these would translate into this space.
Dr. Holly Wood (06:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm, okay.
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (07:09)
Okay, so I tried a few of them with a client the other day and they're very mononormative. Like in the sense of like traditional monogamy, like almost like you're telling a secret, who do you turn to besides me when you're in a tough place? Like do we not all have layers and layers of people? Like it reminded me of my...
Dr. Holly Wood (07:17)
Hmm.
We have nobody else to talk to.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (07:36)
Yeah, it reminded
me of my first marriage where you were supposed to have this one person that was like holder of all your secrets and outside of that it was some form of like emotional cheating or something like that.
Dr. Holly Wood (07:39)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (07:48)
I'm not sold on that deck yet. So we'll stick.
Dr. Holly Wood (07:50)
Got it. it. Have you tried
the speaking of card decks? Have you tried the skin deep? Those are the ones that I go to.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (07:57)
I put the app on my phone at one time and I did a little bit, but it was before I started this podcast and I didn't look at it from the same lens. So I'd have to go back, but those were probably the first exposure I had to these kinds of cards. And then I think the next set, Lou Hanson, who's a surrogate partner and LCSW over in DC, she turned me onto these, but she also bought
Dr. Holly Wood (08:01)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (08:27)
Before I did the Esther Perel deck the where should we begin or where shall we begin or whatever? It's called Again, I like these I've stuck with these so Esther's deck is fine No shade on Esther's deck. but I stick with what I like so our first card is the perception level and We'll take we'll both answer the card for each other and then we'll go on to the next one
Dr. Holly Wood (08:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (08:56)
Do I seem like someone who would get a name tattooed on myself? Why or why not? And I'll answer it about you and you'll answer about me. And we don't know each other well enough to know if we have tattoos. We might know if we have a tattoo, but we might not know all of our tattoos.
Dr. Holly Wood (09:05)
Right.
Right. I can go. I get the impression that you might because it seems like you
I feel like getting the tattoo of somebody's name is just like a very like deep loving thing that you can do and you seem to love very deeply. However, I think you love so widely and so broadly that if you did, you would just be covered in like so many lovely, wonderful people that you have connected with.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (09:48)
Now I'm like,
my goodness, like my thought was like, hell no, I'm not getting someone's name. Other than like my mom, like I eventually will probably have like, I have a desire, my dog is sneezing if my mic is picking that up. I have a desire to get a tattoo of my mom signing love mom from like a gift. And I haven't done it yet. Not because I, I just don't have the follow through to like make the appointment like somebody else.
Dr. Holly Wood (09:53)
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (10:18)
I literally have one tattoo and it's because my Michigan wife made the appointment for both of us to go in at the same time and get the matching tattoo. Otherwise, who knows, it probably would have never happened. So that is a no, I do not have a name tattooed on myself. But, and I would have said, absolutely not. Like I'm of that, don't get, like you don't put boys' names on your body, like that kind of thing. But you give me a really lovely idea though, is to have almost like a sign in sheet.
Dr. Holly Wood (10:25)
Mm-hmm
You
Right.
Hahaha
Michelle Renee (she/her) (10:48)
somewhere for like the closest people in your like just I don't know like a memory wall or something. It's an interesting idea because I have, I know if I can put it on camera here, it's weird to get, it's a backwards thing. It's a Dictic, which is a little antelope. It's very, it's, yeah, it's very strange to try to show it. It's put on my arm for me to look at it and my Michigan wife who's like one of my best friends, which is why I call her that.
Dr. Holly Wood (10:48)
Mm-hmm.
Huh.
yeah, yeah.
yes yes yes now I see it yes
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (11:16)
We have the same tattoo because she has stage four breast cancer and she asked me if we could do some kind of matching tattoo. Her initial thing was like lobsters because they mate for life. And then my husband yelled from the background, friends lied to you, that's not true. It was a friends episode situation thing. And so we went to a list and we ended up with a dick dick because I'm a 13 year old boy at heart and it makes me laugh that I can say I have a dick dick on my arm.
Dr. Holly Wood (11:16)
Mm-hmm.
Love that. It is cute.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (11:46)
And it's cute. Somebody said it is the most wholesome tattoo. Right. So
I could see having something like that, but like an arm of like people's names. But only because you suggested it, like I never would have thought about it. And because I'm really terrible at following through on tattoos, it's probably never going to happen. Maybe Sharpie, like temporary tattoos, that will probably be the closest I come.
Dr. Holly Wood (11:59)
Mm-hmm.
Right, makes sense. Yeah.
Or like when you're like in school and you get a t-shirt, everyone like signs your t-shirt on the last day, like something.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (12:20)
Yeah,
yeah. Now for you, I'm thinking about different, and this is again, it's all about perception. And so this, I'm going to do like all these like weird tropes. So like, I know that you ride a motorcycle or you've had pictures of motorcycles. So I'm going to do a total stereotypical thing.
Dr. Holly Wood (12:38)
Mm-hmm. I'm sorry, I'm
gonna jump in real quick because my partner will not let me live this down if I don't. We don't ride a motorcycle, we ride a Harley. And there's a difference. Right.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (12:47)
Okay, of course, that's very different. Thank you for correcting. I don't wanna get anybody on me for this, whether it be your husband or somebody listening. So I'm gonna do
the total stereotypical, well, because you are a motorcycle girl, I'm gonna say that you totally are covered in tattoos and we just can't see it because you're a blazer and that you definitely have your husband's name tattooed on you.
Dr. Holly Wood (13:13)
That's like really biker right like to have your husband's name tattooed on you Yeah, yeah good so We I do have names tattooed on me, but not my husband and not any other Partners in my life because similarly yeah, I'm a no-go on a partner's name. That's like a kiss of death like no for me No, thank you, but I do have
Michelle Renee (she/her) (13:18)
I mean, why not? Either your mom or your partner, right?
Dr. Holly Wood (13:43)
My brother, my sister, and my great grandparents tattooed in like a memorial because they had all passed away. So I do have those family members tattooed. And actually my husband right before we got married showed up with the Hollywood sign all across his forearm. So he has mine.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (13:49)
Yeah.
But he can
play that off if anything was to go. He's like, I'm a big fan.
Dr. Holly Wood (14:07)
He could, he's like, I just like Holly or my,
no one's buying that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (14:13)
I always thought, we
have joked, the advisory panel for Cuddlist, we've been a group of people that have been together for a long, long time. And we've talked about coming up with a matching tattoo that's Cuddlist related, but not like branding ourselves in like the logo, but something like the oxytocin molecule or something that's kind of related to our work that we could all do something together, I don't know, in some kind of weird.
Dr. Holly Wood (14:19)
Ahem.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (14:43)
not commitment, commitment ceremony kind of thing.
Dr. Holly Wood (14:43)
The first
thing that came to my mind was the avocado, because that's something that you use a lot, or avocado, right?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (14:49)
Well.
Yep.
I, I, I'm ready to go buy like little nail art stickers on Amazon and start taking them in for my pedicure. Like I'm, I've lost it with the avocado thing. It's just, it's for a longest time, people would buy me like clients would buy me gifts and stuff. And they would buy me like vulva related items, which I love, but it's interesting. It's now shifted to avocado, which is more, I guess I don't have to devulva my space as much for like
My work is not in the sex world anymore, so I don't keep that stuff in my office like I used to. But I used to have to devolve in my office before my in-laws would come because they would stay in it as our guest room. my mother-in-law does not want to look at a bunch of vulvas. And then I got into soft cock week and then I started getting gifts of penises. And again, I'm happy with avocados. they're just, I'm good on the penises.
Dr. Holly Wood (15:24)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (15:50)
Yeah. More vulvas, never a problem.
Dr. Holly Wood (15:51)
Avocados are so tasty too.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (15:55)
Like I will definitely, you showed off your Wonders of Vulva pillow on a call yesterday that we shared. And I have mine and I will hold that as a dear tool forever. Because how often do you, I mean, people need an approachable representation to talk about.
Dr. Holly Wood (15:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:15)
their vulva or their partner's vulva. And it's not that I don't cover those conversations in my space, but it's not where they rest their head during a cuddle session. know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Do you use yours a lot in your work? I'm assuming it probably comes out quite often.
Dr. Holly Wood (16:20)
Mm-hmm.
Sure, sure.
not much, like not as much as I'd like to. I think she needs to come out more often. It's nice to kind of show a little bit of like anatomy. But yeah, she doesn't come out as often. And the other thing you can't see is I have like a huge painting on my wall of a vulva that my husband painted for me actually. And it looks kind of like the the Virgen de Guadalupe. Like it looks beautiful.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:41)
Get exposed, sir.
Dr. Holly Wood (17:00)
And sometimes I'll like tour and show people my office. And this is also a guest room, so people sleep in this space.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (17:06)
Yeah,
I mean, that's the I guess with working virtually pulling out a puppet isn't quite as helpful as if they were sitting across from you in a in person session. So the pluses and minuses. Yeah, I want to kind of in that same sense instead of evolve, though, I want to do like it's a little different.
Dr. Holly Wood (17:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (17:31)
Kind of an ode to Emily Nagoski as like the Virgin Mary of like, have it be Emma.
Dr. Holly Wood (17:38)
That'd be good. Yeah, yeah, I like it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (17:39)
just worship her a little bit. yeah. Okay. Are you ready for have
we done? Yeah, we have to. Okay. So level two is the connection level. What's been your happiest memory this past year? So we'll say 2024.
Dr. Holly Wood (17:50)
Okay.
Mmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (18:01)
Or up till today, it doesn't matter. But I have to think.
Dr. Holly Wood (18:05)
Me too, that's a hard one.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (18:16)
Okay, I have one.
Dr. Holly Wood (18:17)
You have one, do you want to go first?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (18:19)
Yeah,
it's the loudest memory that my inner child is screaming at me right now. So I'm just going to run with it because we know they rule the world anyways. I'm such a like therapy geek and I read all the books and Polly Bagel and all the things, right? I was at this conference that I mentioned innovations in October and we're sitting there on a Saturday morning.
Dr. Holly Wood (18:24)
Okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (18:46)
in our onesies because Keely and I have decided that the last day of conference, we're always going to show up in our onesies. It's a weird kind of like, come in, be professional, prove yourself as a professional, and then just be a little lighthearted. So we're sitting there. I'm in my avocado. Keely is in like, I think they're dragon onesie or something with six inch heels. It was a wild combination. That's how Keely rolls.
Dr. Holly Wood (18:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Love it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (19:12)
This older woman walks up to the table and we get to chatting about our work and professional cuddling. I do what I always do. I scan for her badge to see like, where are you located? Is it somebody from Southern California? I should connect you for like happy hour if you're in San Diego. Like I do all these things that I'm always like, how do I, where do I place this person? And I look at her name tag and it's Deb Dana. And I don't know if you know who Deb Dana is.
Dr. Holly Wood (19:35)
Right.
Oh yeah,
yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (19:42)
And I'm like,
I just go, my God, you're Deb Dana. And Keely goes, my God, Michelle talks about you all the time, which is not true. I mean, I'm not that's not true. But I think Keely was very smart in saying that I'm not going to be mad about it. But it was just one of these moments that was like, my gosh, like you came to talk to us. This is so wild. And she was so supportive. And she's like, you guys should be training.
Dr. Holly Wood (19:58)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (20:09)
therapist on this and we're like, well, we're not therapists. So she's like, talk to Pessy and we're like, well, we can't do that for Pessy, but we will talk to other therapists about putting together some kind of triadic model thing. But just inner child wise, I was just geeked out because all these years of going to these conferences, it's like Comic-Con for me because I'm like, I'm to see this person. I read their book and I'm to see this person. I read their book. And that was just
Dr. Holly Wood (20:11)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (20:37)
wild, wild experience for me. So that's my favorite memory of the last year. Yeah.
Dr. Holly Wood (20:42)
that's a good one. That's good.
I think for me, I'll just go with, yeah, what is standing out as like the loudest is my daughter's first birthday. So we have lots of exciting things and that trumps getting my PhD last year. It stands out more, which is, yeah, two babies, exactly.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (21:02)
Well, you were cooking, you were cooking them both at the same time, to be fair.
Dr. Holly Wood (21:08)
But yeah, we just had, my daughter's name is Rebel, and so we had Rebel's first rodeo, and just so many people showed up, and we lived kind of far from a lot of people, so the fact that everybody came out and made a huge deal, and we just got to celebrate her, and we had trouble even getting pregnant the first time, so to be able to celebrate that we made it this far, and we...
not only does she have so much love around her, but me and my partner have so much love around us because of how much everybody shows up for her. It was just a really, really special moment. And that's something that stands out to me for sure.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (21:51)
Did
you have that like first cake moment for her and that first birthday?
Dr. Holly Wood (21:56)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. I made the cake, everything. So yeah, a little pink cow print cake was a mess. She cried though over the pinata because she didn't want it. It was a horse, so she didn't want to hurt the horse, which is sweet and nice.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (22:15)
as a therapist and you're like, how did this imprint on her and we're really show up later on in her therapy.
Dr. Holly Wood (22:18)
Exactly right, I'm like...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (22:23)
That's funny. The things I'm glad I didn't know, I think when I was a new mom versus what I wish I'd known now, if I could go back and do it over again with my kids, like I would not have been, I was a cry it out mom. And now what I know about attachment and all that, I'm like, my gosh, like my sister was so right doing the attachment parenting stuff and how I would, you know, go back and do it differently, but there's a time.
Dr. Holly Wood (22:33)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's and it's so hard. There's always so much information coming out like more information like this style of parenting, this style of parenting, this bit of research, this bit of research. And I think so many moms get like shamed over like every like no matter what you choose, like somebody's going to have a problem with it. So I'm just I've been trying to just really let all that go. Be very present, try and tune into what feels good for us and like
also be mindful of the American Academy of Pediatrics because I do believe in science, but otherwise, yeah, it's all just, we're all just figuring it out.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (23:29)
They don't come with a manual as I say, but I feel like we do have more manuals now in a weird way like with the internet and like you said not all of it is even scientifically backed and
Dr. Holly Wood (23:34)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (23:42)
Yeah, well, I would say as she gets older and you have a second one coming too, right? Yeah.
Dr. Holly Wood (23:48)
I do, I do.
I have a couple months, a few months left before another one comes.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (23:55)
Yeah, that'll be fun. But as I get older, I think that the thing that I wish I'd done more of then, I did a little bit of it. I wasn't completely absent of it. But apologizing to my kids, I think, has made a huge difference in what our relationship looks like compared to my parents, who I don't remember getting apologies from. That's my interesting look back.
Dr. Holly Wood (24:05)
Mm-hmm.
I think that's so important, even thinking about my own experience growing up and my relationship with my parents. think generationally, it has been difficult for older generations and parents to admit when they did something wrong, almost because not like they're denying it, but they can't even face it themselves because of the pressures for them to be parents. They can't face that they did something that could have possibly caused damage to their child.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (24:42)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Holly Wood (24:50)
And so I think there's like an avoidance of taking responsibility or apologizing. And so I imagine that is so healing for the relationship that you have with your children.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (24:56)
Yeah.
Well, it wasn't modeled by their parents either, you know, and so somebody has to break the curse. All right. The reflection section. What do you think my defining characteristic is?
Dr. Holly Wood (25:05)
Exactly.
Mm-hmm.
What do I think yours is?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (25:21)
Mm-hmm, then I gotta think about yours.
I picked this and I went like, what am I gonna say?
Dr. Holly Wood (25:28)
And you knew ahead of time. You had an edge.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (25:29)
I know I did. just like picked
them out before. I usually do it right on right on camera. Like but then I end up going, no, we did that one last time. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. So.
Dr. Holly Wood (25:44)
I think I have one for you based on my impression of you and how little or much they love each other. But there's this word that stands out when I think about you and it's connector. You are a connector. I'm also curious what your zodiac sign is and how that aligns. okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (25:59)
Mmm.
I'm a Scorpio. I'm a Scorpio. I don't know if that
means anything. I don't follow much of that other than. OK. The only thing I relate to her on Scorpio is like I really have to I really have to catch myself from just like burning shit down. Like I would just like set the place on fire on my way out. And that's like not my most proud characteristic at times.
Dr. Holly Wood (26:10)
I don't think they're particularly connected. I'm a Scorpio also.
business
I can understand that. can relate to that. But yeah, you are just like to me, you are a connector. Like you are somebody who like even when you mentioned, you know, the first thing you do when you're out of these events is like scan for someone's badge. Where do I place you? How do I connect you with somebody? The events that you continue to put on the meetings you hold. It seems like you always know somebody or have a resource for something.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (26:32)
it's a scorpio trait.
Dr. Holly Wood (26:59)
which is something I really appreciate about you and I love that about you. So that's what stands out to me is like you are a connector and a relationship builder.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (26:59)
Mm-hmm.
Thank you, I appreciate that. I do take a lot of like, maybe it's, it might be just a coping mechanism of like, how do I make sure that I'm important? Or how do I make sure that I'm remembered? Or you know, that same kind of like, my core fear is being invisible. Like I've done a lot of like, have you played around with existential kink at all?
Dr. Holly Wood (27:09)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
No.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (27:34)
it's pretty good book. Although I've had a lot of people go, I'm surprised that you liked it, Michelle, because it's a little they go, it's a little woo woo for you. And I'm like, yes. The premise of it is, is that you take like this, core fears, and you eroticize them. And so they actually had like a guided meditation that was like a masturbation meditation.
Dr. Holly Wood (27:36)
I'm gonna write it down.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (28:00)
I had an amazing orgasm off of my fear of being invisible because I turned it into like, what if I wasn't visible, what would I do with that power? Right. And I could be very voyeuristic and it was a very interesting experience. I've never gone back and tried it twice. But I think it's a, I think it's a very interesting read. And so that's, that's what always comes up for me is like this fear of being invisible. So.
Dr. Holly Wood (28:03)
Woo!
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Yeah, well, I think it's like there's like a light and a shadow side, right? Like I see like the light side of this being connected relationship builder and then like the shadow side of that is like maybe it comes from a place of not wanting to be invisible.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (28:37)
Yeah, I was invisible in my family. still am. yeah. Okay. So your characteristic defining characteristic.
The thing that keeps coming up and if I knew you better, it might be something else would stand up further. But because of the kinds of connections that we've shared, what I think about is your approachability is the big word that comes up for me. And I think you're very relatable. Like we've done some, you were doing a study as part of your PhD and I participated in that.
Dr. Holly Wood (29:04)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (29:15)
And yeah, I feel like that's the thing that's coming up the strongest for me is that you're very approachable and relatable. And I think in sex therapy, that's so important, right? Because you're asking people to be the most vulnerable, at least in my... Here's how I see it. I was just talking to somebody the other day about this. In regular general therapy, a lot of therapists are really uncomfortable talking about sex.
Dr. Holly Wood (29:22)
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (29:42)
And I think they should follow that discomfort because if they're uncomfortable, we don't need them making a client situation worse. Right. So while I'm upset that you haven't worked on your own sex shit, right. That you can't hold that space for your clients. Don't try to hold that space if you haven't worked on your sex shit. Right. And so as a sex therapist, I just think that you get to see a different side that people really struggle to share outside of your, your space. Cause
Dr. Holly Wood (29:48)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (30:10)
I know
I've held that space for a lot of people and I'm not a sex therapist, like, if people feel safe with you, they will tell you those things. And they come to you looking for a place to talk about those things. And I think that says, I think that I imagine if I was picking a sex therapist, approachability and relatability would be really important. Yeah.
Dr. Holly Wood (30:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that sometimes, which is, I think maybe comes from my own like thing of not like my shadow side or like this own like trauma of like, I feel like I'm not always a people person. I maybe like I think I maybe have this fear of like not
being liked. And so to hear that people find me approachable and relatable is really nice to hear. And of course, in the work that I do, I like I love being able to hold space for people. And that is just like, like I am so honored every day to be able to hear some people's deepest, darkest secrets and fears and parts of themselves that they don't share with anybody else. So that is certainly my work I appreciate and also
Michelle Renee (she/her) (30:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Holly Wood (31:24)
just because you volunteered this information to be able to witness your story and your participation in that research was, again, I'm honored to be able to hear those things from you, from everybody else who comes to my office or participates. So thank you.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (31:41)
Yeah,
and same thing in working with that group of people in my work and you work with that same demographic. I just think it's such an honor to help, least in my work, a lot of my work is helping those clients learn how to trust themselves. Right. And some of that starts with trusting me, but ultimately I want them to trust themselves. And I just, ugh.
Dr. Holly Wood (32:01)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (32:09)
I can't get enough of that kind of work because it feels like it's, I often describe it as like not the darkest side of sexual assault. Like I'm on the recovery side of sexual assault and it's like, yes, you've had this horrific thing happen and how can we start to create some different memories? Not that they're going to replace those memories, but in a way they have something different to attach to a sensation or something.
Dr. Holly Wood (32:19)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (32:37)
thing. example, I don't know we've ever talked about this, but I have a client that one time she talked about, she does, she has a hard time showering because the washcloth feels very abrasive and reminds her of her father. And so we did some kind of exposure therapy around that of how could we help change that sensation correlation. Right. And to me, that just feels so good to be on the other side where I can like people say, gosh, it's such a heavy topic, Michelle. How do you like
Dr. Holly Wood (32:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (33:07)
How do you deal with these stories? And I was like, cause I'm on the side where I'm like helping them create a new story. And that just feels, I don't know. don't, that, that feels so an easy yes for me.
Dr. Holly Wood (33:12)
Mm hmm.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And like something that similarly something that's been coming up a lot lately is like people have asked me like, who do you like to work with? And like, this sounds like a really terrible way to frame it. But what comes up is, in particular women who feel like they're broken, because getting to the place where they see that they're not broken, and having that transformation is
the most rewarding experience for myself, certainly being able to bear witness to that and support them through that. So think a lot of people get the impression like, it must be very sad. Like you said, how do you deal with that? It is certainly sad. these are terrible stories of things that people have been through, but seeing them grow and transform and create new memories and new paths for themselves is why I do this work. I imagine why you...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (34:02)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Holly Wood (34:09)
do the work.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (34:10)
Yeah, it's like a form of payment in some ways of like, I take so much pleasure in seeing the next phase of their life. It's really great. My dog is licking my arm pretty intensely and I'm wondering what the sound is going to be like on the mic. anyways. Anything else you want to talk about today? What do you got coming up? I know you've got a YouTube channel you're launching.
Dr. Holly Wood (34:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I
do I do I'm really really excited. I feel so embarrassed like saying this out loud Like again, maybe going back to my fear of putting myself out there, right? But I've been wanting to play around with YouTube for a long time Just as someone who consumes YouTube all the time and now
you know, in my 30s, so it's like I'm a geriatric YouTuber, even though I know that that's not that old, but it just like, in YouTube world, it seems like it's geriatric. But yeah, so I'm, you know, just gathering content, putting together a YouTube channel that's going to launch in the beginning of April, on April 5th, called The Hollywood Sexologist. And it's just really exciting to be able to put together
evidence-based information for everybody. And it's interesting going back to when you use the word approachable. I just recorded the trailer and so one of the things that I express is like my goal is to make this information accessible and approachable for people so that they can get real accurate information which I think is also so important given the current political climate and what's happening in the state of the world.
to able to access accurate information and for free. And again, to reach more people to help them realize that they're normal and not broken. So this is something I'm super, super excited about just to be able to share more stuff with people.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (36:12)
Is it going to be like interview or just like you talking like one like you sharing a topic like any ideas of what the content is going to look like?
Dr. Holly Wood (36:16)
Okay.
Yeah,
yeah. So as of right now, it's mostly just me talking, talking head videos about different things like types of desire, how to like increase desire, things around erection functionality, things around health benefits of sex, how mental health impacts our experience of sexual pleasure. But I would, I think, like to incorporate some interview style things, maybe have you on there one time, I was thinking having
Aubrey Lancaster out there to talk about some asexuality stuff, know, bring in people because I might have a lot of information but also there's so many, I'm connected to so many wonderful brains who have like so much more information to share. So if I could get other folks who might want to talk on there with me, I think that would be great too.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (36:50)
Mm-hmm.
I think having more and more stories that are outliers, like I think it's really easy to like, what is normal? If it's happening to you, it's probably normal, right? Like it's, there's such a variety. And I think about when you talk about Aubrey and we've talked about Aubrey and I have talked about, wouldn't it be great to put a panel together of people that are identified as asexual to share our own experiences and how they differ. Because I think we get very locked in of what asexual means. And like I'm
Dr. Holly Wood (37:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
anything else?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (37:40)
I didn't figure out I was asexual until a year and a half ago and I'm turning 50. So like so many things I figured out about myself in my 40s has been pretty wild. But it's so frustrating to hear people go, but you have sex, so you must not be asexual. And I'm like, and that's not just from like laymen. This is like from the therapy community and our colleagues and things like that. And I'm like, like it's about sexual attraction.
Dr. Holly Wood (37:51)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (38:10)
And then we talk about highly responsive desire and all these things kind of piggyback on each other. I would love a topic. I'm just going to throw this out here as a special personal request. I would love a topic on how GLP-1s are affecting people's sexual desire.
Dr. Holly Wood (38:14)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (38:30)
Because I've heard multiples, I asked my doctor, I'm doing all my perimenopause care through a telehealth company called Midy. And I was talking to my doctor the other day about this. And she says some people have an increased desire on a GLP one. And I've always just assumed that because it's killing my pleasure center around food, that it's killing a lot of my pleasure centers.
Dr. Holly Wood (38:42)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (38:57)
And
so I'm really curious in the sex therapy world, what's showing up in offices and stuff like that. Because I'm living it right now and I don't know how to counter it and I won't give it up. So it's more like how to work with it than just a band and ship.
Dr. Holly Wood (39:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Sure. No, and I'd be interested in like the relational impact because I think like, know, as well as I do that there's so much of desire also is dependent on relational aspects. And I've seen more recent research about how GLPs are affecting affecting people's relationships, right? Like, they're, you know, if you're experiencing negative side effects that you have, you're uncomfortable, you might be irritable, that's impacting your relationship, or even just
Michelle Renee (she/her) (39:24)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Holly Wood (39:40)
the way that we think about food, right? Food has been something that brings people together. We break bread together. And so that's having an impact on how people are relating.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (39:44)
Mm-hmm.
Weight loss in general, I went through bariatric
surgery almost three years ago and they warn you right off the bat with bariatric surgery that there's a high divorce rate. Right. And so there's a lot of layers that happen and it's, been really interesting to have this like smorgasbord of like multiple things colliding at the same time between like
Dr. Holly Wood (39:56)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
yeah.
Thank
Michelle Renee (she/her) (40:14)
Realizing the asexuality, and I was in a conversation with a friend yesterday, goes, but how do you think knowing this has changed something for you? Because it's not like you're different, it's just that you know different things. And I described it as like, now have, I can tell you when I look at somebody, I pay attention now of what do I want with them. Rather than just seeing a draw to somebody as meaning sexual attraction, when I really break it down, my draw to somebody is,
Dr. Holly Wood (40:17)
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Michelle Renee (she/her) (40:44)
I want to be close to you. I want to know you really well. I want to have physical contact with you, but I never am like, what would it be like to have sex with you? Like that one doesn't cross my mind. I didn't have that pieced apart before, right? So it's just, I didn't know what I was working with before, because I was just kind of like, this must equal this. And that's what that is. So throw that together with the GLP-1, the perimenopause, like,
Dr. Holly Wood (40:54)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (41:13)
I upped my testosterone, that didn't up my libido. Like it was just, it's this lovely in the worst, not lovely way. It is a very frustrating combination of things. And I think there needs to be more conversation around the GLP-1 components for sure. Cause I hear a lot of talk about the perimenopause component, throw the GLP-1 on top and it's interesting.
Dr. Holly Wood (41:17)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, Mm-hmm.
Yeah, good, good idea. Definitely. I will, I will start researching.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (41:43)
Yeah. Yeah, we're doing a fun experiment in my household right now.
My husband suggested the other day, because I was saying to him, you know, I'm really struggling with getting to like, I think maybe what I want right now in sex is a lot of receiving. Like, I maybe want to parse my sex out to be less about reciprocal pleasure and more about one directional, whether it be only receiving or only giving.
Dr. Holly Wood (42:01)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (42:13)
And
he just goes, I have an idea. Do you want to do an experiment? And I was like, I love experiments. And he goes, this is like towards the end of January. He goes, how about for the rest of this month and all of February, everything has to be for your pleasure. That means you have to ask for it. Or if I ask for something, it's for you. Like I would like to do this thing, but it's only for you. So only say yes, if you want to receive this thing. I'm, but I want to encourage you to ask for what you want, which is.
Dr. Holly Wood (42:32)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (42:42)
This what I teach. It's not like it should be that hard. But I do find that we're a very independent couple. don't like we do our own thing unless it's date day for the most part. Like I don't ask him what like I don't say like, I have a coffee date with so and so. Is that that work OK for our schedule? Like we are very separated. And I said to him, OK, but does that mean even things outside of sex? And he's like.
Dr. Holly Wood (42:42)
Thank
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (43:09)
I think so, because I like in Wheel of Consent work, we do a lot of talk about, what do you want right now? Rather than like, what should you want? Or what did you think you'd want? It's like, but right in this moment, what do you want? And so I said, what if I want to ask you to watch a movie with me? Can I ask you that? Which I avoid doing. And he's like, yeah, you can ask me that. I said food. He's like anything. And so I had watched like a TikTok about some pizza place and I was like, oh, no, I pizza.
Dr. Holly Wood (43:15)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (43:38)
And he goes, you could ask for it. And I was like, ooh, could we get pizza? And he's like, I'll even go pick it up. And I was like, great. And so I find myself asking these things. But what I find myself not asking is for the sex. Right. And so I'm only a few weeks into it. But what I've noticed is that I notice myself shoulding that I should ask for sex. And because I'm being very diligent about just being about what I want.
Dr. Holly Wood (43:49)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (44:08)
I'm not doing it just because it's a should. And it's a month. We're going to see how it goes. So I did ask for sex once. So it took about two weeks or so that I was like, OK, I think I'm ready to say yes to something and ask for it. And so I did. But it's a really fascinating experiment. I'm curious to see what the end of the month look back looks like. Yeah.
Dr. Holly Wood (44:11)
Mm-hmm.
Okay. Okay.
Mm-hmm. Yeah,
I love a good experiment.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (44:39)
But not a lot of people
would be up for an experiment like that. I really appreciate my husband for suggesting it because I don't think I would have asked for
Dr. Holly Wood (44:47)
Sounds like you have a good partnership there in which you can do that. Like you said, like will of consent, like the giving and the receiving back and forth like that, even just having that conversation and expanding it beyond the bedroom.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (44:59)
Yeah, I didn't realize how much shitting was happening. You know? Yeah. Not that I won't go back. I think after the month, my guess is that I'll go back to like, you know, I think that responsive desire component is that I know that I have to get to arousal before the desire shows up. And so I have to do some of that. Not should, but I want to even though I don't want to. Right.
Dr. Holly Wood (45:05)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
the, listen, I talk a lot about this with in, in my own ex, this is similar to my own experience and like with the folks that I work with, right? Like this idea of like the willingness model, like what is the willingness that I have to preheat the oven, so to speak, to get myself there? Like, do I want to like, not really, but I know once the oven's preheated, I am going to want to throw something in there, right? But so it's like, how, how willing am I to turn it on at this moment?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (45:37)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
the want to want. Yeah, for sure. And I do think that's where relationship dynamics can start to really affect that want to want. Right? So, so many little lines to pull. It's like defusing a bomb and pulling, I don't know if that's the right term, or unwinding a ball yarn or something, right? There's like, yeah, maybe not a bomb. That's probably not.
Dr. Holly Wood (45:55)
Mm-hmm.
It's a little safer.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (46:23)
Good plan, but yeah. Well, I look forward to your launch. already RSVP'd, so I will be there. Yeah, it was good to have you here today. Where can people find you online?
Dr. Holly Wood (46:29)
Yay! Excited to have you!
Yeah, they can find me online at thehollywoodsexologist.com and then on social media everywhere, Instagram, on YouTube at The Hollywood Sexologist.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (46:47)
Awesome, well it's great to have you and maybe we'll see you again here or maybe I'll be over there, who knows?
Dr. Holly Wood (46:53)
Yes, thank you so much for having me here. really appreciate it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (46:57)
It was fun to get a little intimate with you. Yes.
Dr. Holly Wood (47:00)
Yeah, same.
Michelle Renee (47:34)
We look forward to breaking apart this episode with you.
