Pussy Confidence with Sara Glass
Show Notes
Join Michelle Renee and Sara Glass while they talk "Pussy Confidence".
Michelle Renee is a San Diego-based Intimacy Guide and Surrogate Partner.
Sara Glass is a San Diego-based creative, healer, and educator.
Together they co-facilitate a workshop for vulva owners that supports body confidence and the power of self-pleasure.
You can learn more about their workshop at https://AnUntamedLife.com. The next one is scheduled for Oct 14, 2023.
Sara's website is https://www.psexperienceyou.com/ and can be found on social media at @psexperienceyou.
Michelle's website is https://meetmichellerenee.com and can be found on social media at @meetmichellerenee.
Links from today's episode:
First article Michelle read about Betty Dodson
Huberman Lab Podcast Episode 1 on Mental Health about agency and gratitude
Rough Transcript
Michelle Renee:
Okay. Hi, everybody. I'm so excited to have this conversation today because I have my San Diego wife with me. So this podcast, my hope is that it ends up being a cast of characters that kind of circle through and they're the people that are in my real life and people that I have, you know, super awesome conversation with or I do super awesome things with. And Sarah is one of those crossovers that all the awesomeness happens around. And so Sarah is joining us to talk about Pussy Confidence, because that's something that we bonded over and something that we offer to our community here in San Diego as a workshop around this. So let me give you a quick idea of who Sarah Glass is, and she'll probably giggle because that's what she does. But I met Sarah, I think in 2017, my best estimate, although Facebook reminds me every once in a while. I think it was 2017. My partner was here in San Diego getting involved in the kink community and there's all these great opportunities and I feel like when you're entering the kink community, one of the highest honors is when you get invited to people's house parties. And so it's like you've hit the inner circles and they trust you to come into their home and he went to this game night at Sarah's house. And the next morning I got pictures of him tied up in like a hog tie in the living room, which would one day become my living room because I ended up living in that house. So I met Sarah because Sarah met Paul first, or met Paul before she met me. And in one of those things where Paul messages me the next morning and says, I can't wait for you to meet Princess Sarah. And I was like, oh shit,
This woman's going to be horrible to deal with. And instead, I came out the next visit and there was another one of these game nights at Sarah's house. And so I got to go and meet Sarah and we instantly bonded over our love of wanting to help women love their vulvas.
And so I was throwing my weight around with like, I worked with Betty Dodson. And we, I think like made a plan that night that we were going to teach women to love their vulvas. And we've been off and running ever since. So I joke that Paul caught Sarah and I kept Sarah. And Paul
is still fine. Paul can still join us, but...
I feel like we turned into something different. And so I love my friendship with Sarah. So Sarah is, I was supposed to introduce Sarah and here I'm just talking about how I met Sarah. Sarah is an artist. She's a painter. She's I think an artist with everything she does. She does touch work and some rope tying and... impact your you're like you're like a top and a bottom you're like uh i don't know you just move through the world in a way that is like i give no shits and i take no shit
so like i always think of sarah's incredibly inspiring and um somebody who i wish i was in my 30s like in my early 30s i wish i but i would have never been married and able to sustain that kind of, I call it like leaving my head in the sand. I couldn't have left my head in the sand if I had a Sarah in my life back then.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Aww.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah. So thanks for coming on to talk about this thing that we love, which is our pussies.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
They're the best.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah. So, how like, I think, I think what might be important for people to know is like how we got there ourselves. Like, did you always love your cunt, Sarah? Was that a thing?
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Oh no, oh my gosh, no. Oh, okay. So my childhood was horrible. There was a lot of abuse and neglect and my mom always had strangers over and there was constantly touch that was done to my body that was not consensual. I really didn't... understand the word no. It wasn't really part of my vocabulary until later on. I just did things and sucked it up to get through it as a child. And then as I grew up... My main part, my primary partners wanted me to be monogamous. They wanted me to dress certain ways. They wanted me to only play with them when they asked. It wasn't something that I was allowed to initiate. It was very much like I was used as a meat sack and I kind of just sucked it up. Sex was really painful. Um, everything just hurt all the time and I just didn't know how to say no yet. And then as I get older, fast forward to when I'm 25, I found cuddle parties. And I was able to say yes to things, but more importantly, I was able to say no and people said, thank you. People respected my no. And then the first like three, four, five cuddle parties I went to, I was just like, okay, everyone ask me questions. I just wanna say no, I just wanna say no. And I did, I was like, no, no. And I loved it. Everybody was like, thank you. There was no coercion. There was no like, come on baby. There was none of that. And then, and I started doing a lot of photo shoots that included my vulva. And I learned how to love her a little bit more. And I did, at one point I did go to a surgeon to change the shape of my vulva. because my lips are big on the inside and I thought everyone was supposed to have little skinny lips and they're not. And on my way out the receptionist was kind enough to encourage me to do the mirror challenge which was there at your pussy in the mirror for 30 days you can touch her you can play with her there's no intention of getting off just kind of look at her beauty and that helped me. also to really learn how to build a relationship with my vulva. So with being able to say no and building this small relationship and taking, taking a lot of pictures of what she looked like, cause I didn't really know because our vulvas are between our legs. I really started to fall in love with my vulva and I wanted to share these skills with other people because once I started to love my vulva, appreciate her for who she is and as a part of who I am, and it, They gave me a great sense of power in my life that I never had before and confidence that I never had before. And it's beautiful and it's rewarding and I'm super thankful to have found this at a younger age, you know.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, yeah.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
And I share this with all the vulva owners.
Michelle Renee:
I remember as a kid being really curious about, especially my labia. I do think I pulled a mirror out at some points, but I definitely was touching and tugging and like, what are these lips? And a very interesting curiosity with it, but I never took up masturbation for whatever reason. And I don't know that it was because I didn't grow up in an overly conservative home. But it certainly wasn't something that was ever talked about. So it wasn't really on my radar, almost like a naivety to it. I can say that I maybe accidentally masturbated as a kid, like would wake up like humping on a pillow or something, like it was part of a dream, but I never had the wherewithal to continue it or to take it farther. I knew it felt good, but like... I don't know, it was like I didn't have the vocabulary to even know what was next or what was there. So like that didn't show up in my life. I didn't grow up with like a mom that was like a super like sexually liberated woman. She actually modeled a lot of living in coercion around sex. So I recreated that in my first marriage. So I didn't have a relationship with my vulva. not even from a masturbation standpoint. And so when I came around to this, it was like I was 37 years old, I think, something like that. And it was like, it all stemmed out of one of my, a person in my life, I won't get into specifics, I don't have the permission to necessarily talk about it. I found that she could orgasm super, super easy. and it was really, really hard for me. And so my initial push was because I wanted to orgasm easier. And when I figured out I wanted to do that, Betty Dodson fell into my lap, which I think, like, I don't know if I believe in manifesting and all that stuff, but I'm really fucking good at it. Whether it's real or not, I don't know. But an article about Betty Dotson came across my news feed in May of 2014, and I've never been the same since. Right, she had a lot of the same like thought her vulva was ugly. I didn't have a partner that really like. Relished in my vulva, like it was one of those like, I guess maybe like, I guess I could do I could go down on you. And I didn't really enjoy oral sex because I was had hangups around my vulva. So like it was like a he wasn't super into it and I wasn't super into it. So it just wasn't something that ever. really bloomed in my life. And I say that word very on purpose because I think of like, what do I know about vulvas? I didn't know about that. Betty Dodson helped me learn that. We need 20 minutes of contact to really turn our vulva on and to make all that erectile tissue erect. And so a blooming vulva comes to mind. And
Michelle Renee:
yeah, I got to the point... with the help of Betty Dodson of like, I remember the first time I took a picture of my vulva and I could actually say, wow, like I would share this. This is pretty. And I actually did because I had people in my life that were like, oh, send me a naughty picture kind of thing. And I'm like, anything but my vulva would I send because I just, I'm like, why would you wanna look at that? And so the first time that I took a picture that I was like, ooh, look at her, she's pretty. I sent her to everyone.
I was like dropping pictures in people's inboxes they were not expecting, like including girlfriends.
And like, I didn't know Sarah at this point or she would have been first on the list, right? But it was a big deal. And then the other big deal was the time that I was able to orgasm without a toy.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Mmm.
Michelle Renee:
Like that was another big moment that same year. where I remember thinking, oh, I can be on a deserted island now and still have pleasure. Right? I don't,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Mmm.
Michelle Renee:
I'm not relying on a vibrator as some kind of like, I don't know that it's important. I don't know that it's a skill that I think everyone should aim for or they're failing. I don't want to make it sound like that. But for me, it was so empowering to know that I could get myself off. And, and in that you know doubleness of and I love my vulva and she's pretty and I can look at her with pride and love and like joy. It just changed everything in my world right? The difference between like knowing how to touch myself and love myself.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Hmm.
Michelle Renee:
Just huge difference in how I showed up for sex.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
So true, so true. I feel the same way. Once I built that relationship, you know, just sex became so much better and pleasurable and desirable even, you know, it wasn't so painful.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, you were in your agency, right? I was listening to a podcast the other day that talked about the two keys to mental wellness. How do we keep ourselves in a positive mental health space? And it was like gratitude and agency. And
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Mm.
Michelle Renee:
I think about, I don't have any problem living in gratitude. I mean, I drive down the street here, living in San Diego, growing up in Michigan, I just pinch myself at the beauty that I get to live in every day. And I'm constantly looking for places to have gratitude. That part is not a struggle for me. Agency is something that I did not learn. And I think that's what you were getting at too, when you talked about learning about your yes and your no.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
and when we have choice. And we're certainly not doing a great job with our children in helping promote agency because it makes parenting more difficult, right? We
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah.
Michelle Renee:
wanna just teach compliance.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Mm-mm. Yeah. Yeah, it was really interesting, too. Like, you were saying how your childhood, your mom wasn't very, like, sexual. And my bio mom was, but my foster families were not. So it's almost like I had it, and then when I was 10, I lost it again. And then I had to relapse.
Michelle Renee:
I imagine when you showed up in that foster family, having what you knew to be normalized, I
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah.
Michelle Renee:
imagine it came with a lot of placing shame on you.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Oh my goodness, so much. So much shame. I mean, as we all know, we have shame from like our family, we have shame from society, we have all these layers to shame that hinder us or hinder Volvo owners to connect with their Volvas. You know, it's very much like a no-no spot or save it till you're married or it's not about your pleasure, it's about his pleasure. Like we get a lot of those messages in our world and it. It's not very encouraging, you know?
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, we have this myth that female bodies aren't sexual. Like we're just there for the purpose of the penis owner or something like that. Like we shouldn't own our own pleasure. Heaven forbid we have the audacity to like come into a space and know what we want.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah, right? I mean, back in the day it was called hysteria, right?
Michelle Renee:
Well, I know somebody who told me that like they had this lover that she would try to explain what she wanted him to do and he would go, no, I know, I know better.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
oh, me too. I've had that. I had a really wonderful person that, you know, he would do the whole massaging. He would, he'd want to have sex right away and then he would eat me out for three hours. So I remember specifically asking him, can we do the eating out for three hours first and then the sex part? And he's like, baby, you're... You're making me feel like I'm not a man by telling me this. And I'm like, I'm literally giving you the key to my pussy. I am literally telling you what gets me off. And you're making it about your ego right now? I don't think so. And then he wasn't allowed in my bed anymore.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, one of the things I do in my work when I work in a sexual context with people is I really normalize a few things that I think were missing in my previous marriage, right? There was a competition, or a feeling of competition with sex toys, right? That if I needed to use a vibrator, there was some kind of failing, which I want to take that and throw that as far away as I possibly can hurl my magic wand, right? Like...
It's very rare that a toy doesn't come out at some point in my partnered sex. Like
it's very rare that there's not some like, hey grab, you know what would make this feel even better right now? Like it's not about somebody giving you an orgasm. We're co-creating this thing together and I think personally I want to have the best possible experience. Why would I not? And if throwing an orgasm in, throwing a vibrator in or gosh we could name a whole bunch of different toys, right? Are you
bringing rope to the space? Are you bringing dildos to the space? Are you bringing... Pokey things, are you bringing soft, silky things? Like sensations, right? They're all just a bunch of different sensations.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Right, right. You know, tools, enhancement tools that we could use in the bedroom, you know, and I don't know why someone's trying to compete with a battery-operated thing. I don't know where that came from, but I do know that vulvas, you know, we take longer. We take longer to get a gorge. We can take longer to get turned on. It's not like... you know, 10 to 45 seconds we can be hard, you know, like it takes time. It's a beautiful process to build up and it feels so much better when it's done correctly. And that's what tools are for, you know, that's what toys are for, you know, so our hands don't get tired.
Michelle Renee:
and you don't I mean toys are for everyone
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
They're for everyone. We can
Michelle Renee:
they're for everyone.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
literally everyone, every single body I've used toys on. At least the ones I play.
Michelle Renee:
I had a client years ago, which is why I feel safe kind of talking about it here, who was an older gentleman who had never had like proper sex education, which to be fair, I'm 47 and I can't say I had proper sex education. But this gentleman was guessing well into their seventies. And so they'd never had anybody to talk to about sex. And I come in as the sex positive cuddler and- Suddenly, I'm the person that they can ask questions to. And we started talking about masturbation because he was questioning if he could masturbate with a soft penis. I was like,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Mmm.
Michelle Renee:
yeah, absolutely. Have you tried vibrators? And he's like, men can use vibrators?
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah!
Michelle Renee:
And I was like, let me introduce you to a whole new world. We're going to talk about lubricants and vibrators and pleasure. Everybody deserves a wide range of pleasure. And the tools we use are whatever feels good to us. Does it feel good? Do you want more? All right, great.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah.
Michelle Renee:
Is everybody consenting? Awesome, run with it. Like
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Exactly.
Michelle Renee:
do whatever works for you.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
One thing I do know for sure is this generation, the generation that's in school now, I've looked up their sex education plan and it is wonderful. Like, they talk about pleasure and desire. They talk about different ways you can identify, different ways to communicate. I believe that sexual health education has come a long way even though it's scaring a few people because it's not what they learned growing up. There's a lot of fear that's coming out of it. And I've had a lot of conversations around this recently, but I do appreciate that sexual education is changing some, at least in the US, finally.
Michelle Renee:
Well, probably only in some states, that's my guess. Because I do know that there are some states that you don't even have to have accurate sex education, let alone pleasure-based sex education. So I think we live in a bubble of California, which is a privilege in itself. Some people say, do you remember when we were traveling and that one couple was like, oh, you're from California, I'm sorry, or like something like. you're
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
I
Michelle Renee:
going
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
can't
Michelle Renee:
back
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
think of anything
Michelle Renee:
to California
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
else.
Michelle Renee:
on purpose, something. And it was just like, oh, I see where we fall in this. Like this is that's an interesting statement. But yeah, I think I have hope. I have hope. And we have great resources. I'll plug Scarleteen is a great place for teens to go get really good sex education that's on the Internet, easily available. I know when my kids got to the age of needing some extra education, like they have a book. that they, I don't know if it was written by the founder or what, but I was like, here's a great book to read and like have any questions. They've always been the kids that would come to me, but I know not everybody has that relationship with their children, but like leaving some of these things around for your kids to explore on their own if they need to is better than nothing. So.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
In most, well, most libraries across, well, most of the states in the US, they do have a section for sexually healthy developmental books for children.
Michelle Renee:
Oh
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
So
Michelle Renee:
great.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
checking out your local library could be a good asset if you, like, if you're definitely struggling on how much to teach them at what age.
Michelle Renee:
I think a great guide that was said to me is like, meet them where they are. Like what kind of question
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Thank you.
Michelle Renee:
are they asking? Don't answer more than they're asking. Like you don't have to like suddenly, you know, give them a whole dissertation and overwhelm them, but meet them where they're at. Like they'll come, they'll be ready at different stages for different levels of information.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
which is almost the same as us adults, right? We just have to listen to people see where they're at and help them grow where they're coming from, you know?
Michelle Renee:
Right, so that brings us to our Pussy Confidence workshop, which I often say is like varsity level. Like
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
you wanna overcome some stuff, this is like the fast track, right? Like this is like jumping off the cliff and just diving in. Not everybody is always ready for that. And that's why we were really, we tried to be really transparent about what happens in our workshop because some people maybe aren't ready for it. And that's okay too. Also, you don't have to show up at the workshop and turn into a Michelle or a Sarah,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
No.
Michelle Renee:
right? I think of like, who's our target audience? You know, you and I run in the kink and sex positive world, but that's not who shows up to our workshops that I think are our target audience. I think our target audience is more so mainstream America that is ready to... to take ownership of their pleasure, of their bodies. They want a different relationship with their body, more compassion. So.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
I agree.
Michelle Renee:
I think
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
I agree.
Michelle Renee:
we can be like inspirational, I suppose, but I don't expect people to come out of our space and be like, okay, I'm ready to become a sex educator or,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
people.
Michelle Renee:
you know what I mean? That's how I found my work was sitting in Betty Dodson's workshop and looking around the room and saying, wow, I want to help guide people into like a healthy relationship to sex in their bodies. But that's not how most people use this experience. So it's a space to be uncomfortable.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Well, okay.
Michelle Renee:
I think it's a space to be uncomfortable where there's good scaffolding to support you in that. We're creating
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
a safe enough space to take some risks.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes, I agree. Is it okay to talk a little bit about how we have it set up, how we
Michelle Renee:
Yeah,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
have
Michelle Renee:
yeah, for sure.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
our workshops set up? So we kind of open with the hardest thing, which is shame, and we all share our stories about where our journeys have brought us with shame and our vulvas and where we would like to be. which sometimes could bring up some triggering things for people or, you know, they, even when I talk about my story with the group, it's always sad. I always have this little sad, sad little girl in me that's like, why didn't I get the proper education around this? And it's a beautiful process to figure out where we were and where we would like to be. After we do, after we work with shame, we move into a show and tell. And we talk about anatomy and physiology around our vulva, like where our clitoris is, where our urethra opening is, where our vaginal opening is, the whole vulva as a whole. We push our pelvic floor so that we can see all the muscles. And we share this as a group, one by one in front of each other. and the support and the sounds of women or polo owners just being like, ooh, ah, wow, feeds all of us in different ways. You know, it's that, you know, every one of us is so different, but they're all beautiful feeling, you know.
Michelle Renee:
That's the thing, it's like we've, most of us haven't even looked at ours, our own vulva, let alone been in a space where we get to see a dozen vulvas, right?
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah.
Michelle Renee:
Like men, I think of like, you know, people with penises socialized as male, you know, they ended up in locker rooms. They have a very different exposure normalcy. right, where our genitals are hidden
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Right. Yeah.
Michelle Renee:
and we don't get a chance to look at them or we look at them in porn, which is I think probably where you got your desire to have your vulva modified because it didn't look like we're used to looking at. You know, it's, unfortunately, you know, most porn is not really inclusive. You can find it. Please go find inclusive porn.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
Find porn that looks like you. Find porn that represents you, like your body, what you like. But all of our vulvas are different. There are no two vulvas that are the same. And I love that ooh and ah of like, we kind of get lost like we're looking in, like we're in an art gallery, right?
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Right.
Michelle Renee:
And each vulva is a new painting. And we get to like, with like, no judgment. It's all a celebration of like, wow, A, you're willing to share your Volvo with us. Thank you so much. What a lovely gift. And the person showing their Volvo gets this feedback, this mirroring of appreciation, awe, love that we're putting towards that person's Volvo that is on display to help us all. grow and love, love ourselves, love our sisters.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
That's one of my favorite parts of the whole thing. It's just...
Michelle Renee:
That's the community part, because you could do this work with either one of us one-on-one, right? You don't have to come to a group event to really, you can dive into this in one-on-one coaching, you can, but there is something that you cannot get in one-on-one coaching, which is the community aspect of it. And I think that
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
is such a, from what I took away from it when I did the workshop with Betty in 2014 was, one of my takeaways was, wow. I have not been investing in my female relationships nearly enough and I need more of this in my life. Not this as in like, I need to sit around naked, show my vulva to my friends and masturbate together, though I'm not opposed to it.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Thank you.
Michelle Renee:
What I really took away was this need to build and prioritize my female relationships because I did not do that historically. And it was in that space that I made a declaration that I was going to work on my female relationships.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
That's beautiful. It's beautiful.
Michelle Renee:
It brings up
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Ah,
Michelle Renee:
feelings
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
so
Michelle Renee:
for
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
good.
Michelle Renee:
me because now I look at my world. Like when I growing up in high school, I was like my friends were guys, primarily. Women weren't to be trusted. I had just kind of this. My father really promoted competition in my household, and it was an all women's household, like I had three sisters and my mom and then my dad, and he just loved he loved to be the stirrer of the pot. and have us all in competition with each other all the time. So in that space, it was like this realization that I need to let women into my life. And now I look at my friend circle and it's flipped, right?
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
That's lovely.
Michelle Renee:
I have plenty of male friends and non-binary friends and female friends. It's just, it's a cornucopia of like just authentic, real people. and it's just shifted and it started in that spot where I was just like, I need women.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes, I agree. I agree. My relationships definitely got better with women around me once I started building a better relationship with my vulva. And I do feel like society in general kind of pits women against each other in that competition. Like it's not just in there, like your family circle. I feel like that's how you got it. You were exposed, but I do feel like in general, women are not. It's very much like. Oh, she has bigger boobs than me or her hair is whatever, straight and blonde, or she has blue eyes and I don't like her. It's not like real connection with humans. It's just strictly what someone looks like and what we don't have. And then it's like this whole competition thing.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, like it's a competition for resources, but I think society has shifted. You know, we're not looking for necessarily our knight in shining armor
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
No.
Michelle Renee:
to come whisk us away and take care of us. Like I want a partnership, not a parentship I would call like my previous marriage was like a parentship. Like, yeah, it's a relationship, but I'm being parented in a lot of ways. And that would not fly now. Like I think about.
I have panic dreams sometimes. I just had one the other night where I woke up heart racing because, and all I can remember is this feeling of lack of agency from my past life, right? From Michelle 1.0 and it stirs up. a lot of anxious feelings in me when I think back to that time because it is such a night and day difference from what my life is like now. And it all goes back to this journey with myself.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
of it, right? A lot of it's like when you leave the nest, right? When you leave your parents' house, you're going to look for what you know and that's what your parents had or what your family system showed you growing up. And I feel like a lot of times it's not what we really want and we don't really have a lot of, we don't really know our authentic We're still conditioned in what our parents have shown us. We don't know much more outside of that, you know,
Michelle Renee:
Oh,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
until
Michelle Renee:
our nervous
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
we
Michelle Renee:
system.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
educate ourselves.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, our nervous system looks for that. Like, I remember getting into this relationship I'm in now and it was so calm that I didn't think he loved me.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Mmm.
Michelle Renee:
because it wasn't in constant chaos and reactivity. Like reactivity wasn't there. And if you're not reacting in some violent or loud way, my body was like, this dude doesn't care. So like, yeah. Anyways, I kind of glossed over the masturbation part. Let's go back
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee:
to
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
the workshop. So the last major component, right? Is that then we teach like, there's something really empowering about being an orgasmic woman, right? There is a lot of power in the female orgasm. And I remember reading Vagina, the new biography, I think.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Oh yes.
Michelle Renee:
you might still have my copy, I don't know.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
I do.
Michelle Renee:
But this conversation in there about like tapping down female erotic empowerment is a lot about keeping control. Right? And an orgasmic woman is not very controllable. And so, while I don't like to say that sex is about getting to orgasm, I do think that learning how to tap into what feels good, even if it doesn't get you to orgasm.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
Just being able to identify in the moment what feels good to me right now and really connecting to our bodies is really, really important. And so we get to share some time together where we talk about Betty's rock and roll method, which is, I guess there's some science that this is one of the most successful methods of... teaching masturbation, I guess I did a study. I wish I should have flagged where I saw this written. But it's certainly my favorite method to teach. And so we give some tips and tricks on how to connect with your vulva in a pleasurable way. Sarah's got her own little extras to add. Sarah's
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah, I like to
Michelle Renee:
really good
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
understand
Michelle Renee:
with...
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
techniques and like how to put it. So some people think that the clitoris is this little tiny beam and that's it. They don't realize that it has arms that go down the outer labia and it's like a whole system in there and the bulbs get full and when you get fully engorged and it becomes sensitive. and you can play down the lips. So you can, like, it's not just the little clip that you see on the outside. So I like to show, like, how to do some tapping techniques, how to stroke, like, up and down. You could do, like, a zigzag technique. There's so many different ways to bring pleasure to the vulva. And I like to share the hand side, too.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, because I think what we don't, we don't know what we don't know, right? And if nobody's, if you've never sat down and like, it's kind of like, you got to map your vulva, right? You've got to do some body mapping and what touch feels good. Do you like light touch? Do you like harder touch? Do you like a certain speed or pace? And I think that we get in this idea of like, we just need it to be fast. Like we're competing with. the penises in our life that can be ready to go and sometimes orgasm faster than we would like them to. And we're holding ourselves to the standard that I think, I can get off really fucking fast if you give me a magic wand.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah.
Michelle Renee:
If it's just about the getting it off, doing the thing, I can do that. And somebody said to you in time, so I have this vibrator that tracks your orgasm. Like it. graphs it out. It's called the lioness. If you're a geeky person, you probably would really love seeing a graph of your of your orgasm. And I remember sending it to one of my friends and she said, you got off that fast, teach me your ways. And I said, I would never recommend this. This is not quality. This is yes, I can create an orgasm relatively quickly, but it's not the same as having a good build up. And like, It's like, it's like, I don't know. I don't even
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Well, it's
Michelle Renee:
know
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
like,
Michelle Renee:
what to compare it
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
kind
Michelle Renee:
to.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
of like we were talking about before, right? Like when you're not fully engorged, you can still get off, but it's not as pleasurable. You know, like when you slowly build up and you build up, it's almost like that tease and denial thing. Um, you build up, you build up, you build up. And then when you explode, it feels really good as opposed to just exploding.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
You know, just like, sometimes I do that quick, like stress, like, oh, I just need to get off really quick, done, like 10 seconds. And then other times I take myself on a date for two hours. I'll like light candles, make a nice dinner. I like stroke my whole body and then I'll touch my vulva. Like after an hour of touching the rest of my body, now like I just wanna connect with all parts of me and see what feels good and what does send blood to my cunts. And what's the best way to do that?
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, and I'm the opposite. Like I hear Sarah tell these stories of like making love to herself. And I'm like, that's not how I masturbate. I masturbate usually to fall asleep or to relieve anxiety. But here's the thing, I still, this practice of learning to masturbate changed my partnered sex. And I, my preference is partnered sex. And I love the energy exchange of partnered sex. And also, I have this weird thing called a fantasia where I don't see pictures in my head. So fantasy doesn't really do it for me. So to get in the full masturbation mood, I probably got to pull out some porn, which is fine. Like, I don't have any issue with that. But it's just I think for me, learning to masturbate and taught me how to ask for what I needed touch wise.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
And so whether you're going to turn into this, I can make love to myself for hours. or it's just a matter of being better at partnered sex. I think
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
them.
Michelle Renee:
it's something that is empowering. And I am all about empowering people of all genders, but this is a space where I get to come in contact more with people with vulvas, which my one-on-one work tends to be a lot of penis owners. So offering this workshop is not my... my main thing in life, like the thing I mainly work on, but it's the thing that changed my life and got me to where I am. And I wanna pay that forward. And so here's an opportunity for those in Southern California to get some of that benefit of our experience. It's not the same as going to like a body sex workshop. They do it differently. We say it's inspired. by Betty Dodson's work. We do it in a one day offering. It's not a two day offering like the traditional body sex is. But it's, I'd say, you know, it hits all the marks as far as has the core, the core is still there, the heart of it is still there. It's just funny, Sarah and I talk about how it's evolved over the years because of my work has evolved. And so I come with different information than I used to come with to these workshops. Sarah shows up differently than she used to show up in these workshops. We've just grown as people.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah, and I do think as we grow, we bring that into the space. You know, the more knowledge we have and the more techniques we learn and things that really move us, we could be like, hey, how can we add this in? Let's change this one thing. And, you know, we just shifted a little bit so that it fits our lives and what we've learned and what we can offer to people.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah. Oh, and it's just, it's nice to become comfortable being in space with nudity. Like I think that's really empowering for people is to get out of their comfort zone around nudity and how quickly it isn't as noticeable for them. They're like, it kind of fades away. First it's like that, oh no.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
It's like, I gotta get naked in front of people. What are they gonna think? What am I gonna think, you know?
Michelle Renee:
Yeah.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
But I do think that being in a textile free space, it does, it almost sheds a layer of judgment. Like you're not like, oh, look at what they're wearing. Oh, that fits this way or this that way. No, it's just really natural bodies and who people are and you just don't judge them the same way when they're naked. You just don't.
Michelle Renee:
Well,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Thank you.
Michelle Renee:
we're not just like clothing naked, we're a bit emotionally naked.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Oh yes, it's
Michelle Renee:
Yeah.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
very vulnerable.
Michelle Renee:
And very bonding.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
and very
Michelle Renee:
Hence,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
abundant.
Michelle Renee:
hence why I left my first one going, I need more women in my life because
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Thank you.
Michelle Renee:
I did feel incredibly bonded to the people in that space.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
And yeah, so.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah, that connection, the women that are the vova owners in the space seem to all build a strong connection
Michelle Renee:
Yeah.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
exploring together, you know.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah. So we keep popping back and forth between vulva owners and women as terminology. I just want to like make some clarity. You know, our general audience is cis women. Like that's pretty standard. We are open to Volvo owners in general, but know that it's a space that is pretty cis centered just because that's who we are. we come into the spaces to white cis women of varying orientations, right? I think we're both like, I don't know, if we were gonna identify ourselves, like what are the labels that I carry? I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a sister, I'm an aunt. I identify as a queer person. I am a... I mainly identify as a dominant in the kink world. I tend to like to top, is where I like to land in that world. I'm a non-monogamous person with heavy monogamy leanings. Like there's all these different labels that we carry. And I also happen to have a vulva.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
And if you have any questions on whether you belong in that space or not, please reach out and ask one of us. This is not a space for penis owners. Um, you don't have to identify as a woman, but have a vulva. You would be welcome in this space.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
So, questions, ask them.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes, please.
Michelle Renee:
Yes. What else do they need to know? We have a workshop coming up in October on the 14th from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. in San Diego. And you can find out information at untamedlife.com.
So, Sarah, where can people find you if they are interested in any of the work that you do, whether they wanna check out your art or work with you one-on-one
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
All the
Michelle Renee:
or
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
things I have heard. I have heard so
Michelle Renee:
so many things, where can they find you?
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
many things. psexperienceyou.com It'll have
Michelle Renee:
That's
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
all
Michelle Renee:
your
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
my
Michelle Renee:
new
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
information.
Michelle Renee:
website.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
My new website, it's finally done.
Michelle Renee:
and it'll
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
It'll
Michelle Renee:
be in the
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
have
Michelle Renee:
show
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
everything.
Michelle Renee:
notes.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
It'll have all my creatings, stuff, art, I do regular fine art, I do mirror art, I do erotic art, Pussy Confidence stuff is on there. that will also take you straight to an untamed life. I do healing work, touch work, everything's on there you could find. All the offerings.
Michelle Renee:
I just had something fall off my desk. I don't know how that will hit the recording. Awesome. And it's kind of like your umbrella site. Like I have meetmichellerenet.com. Well, like it's like a starting point and then it will direct you to wherever you need to find the pertinent information that you're looking.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
Cool. Well, we have limited tickets. So don't hold off, because I don't know when we'll do this again, right? We kind of throw this out there every once in a while and you're about to go traveling.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes, I'm going to travel the US
Michelle Renee:
So
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
all over.
Michelle Renee:
you could technically do a pop-up pussy confidence somewhere, but for now we know we're gonna be in San Diego in October. If you are somewhere else in the world and you're like, I would really love to bring this to my community and you want to help coordinate it, it could be something that we could bring to you.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah, we can show up for that.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, it's open to discussion. So, all right, is there anything last that you'd like to add that we haven't covered that you would feel terrible
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
I'm sorry.
Michelle Renee:
if we signed off and you're like, oh, this one thing we didn't touch on it.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
No, I think we hit all the points. I mean, I know this could be a little scary to jump into to do this type of work, but I do believe it's very empowering and I do believe it can bring confidence into your life,
Michelle Renee:
Yeah,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
you know.
Michelle Renee:
not just in the bedroom either.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
No, everywhere. Everywhere.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, we're definitely different people.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah, and that's what makes it beautiful. No one's the same.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, I sometimes think everybody should just send their young daughters to me, but then I'm like, I don't know at what age that would be appropriate to like expose them to me. Like I joke with my sisters that, you know, when your daughters are of the age where you feel like they can handle like really open on this conversation, let me know because I've learned a lot. I've learned a ton, especially in the last eight years of my life. that I would love to share, because I wish I'd known these things when I was a teen.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah, me too. Oh my goodness, me too. My life would be so different.
Michelle Renee:
Yeah, I have, I try not to have regrets because it got me to where I'm at. It really helps me have passion for what I do. But yeah, it would be a very different trajectory. We're doing generational healing work. I Am Sarah is the space that we're holding in this workshop is generational healing.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yes.
Michelle Renee:
And it's important. So thanks for listening to us. I'll have Sarah back. if she gets comfortable with, if she's like, yes, I love doing this,
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Hehehehehehe
Michelle Renee:
Sarah and I will, we'll be back together on this podcast at some point. All right.
Sara Glass/PRINCESS:
Yeah, this was wonderful. Thank you so much.
Michelle Renee:
Thanks for listening.
