Adelina Adler and a Soft Cock Week Wrap-Up
In this episode, Michelle Renee and Adelina Adler discuss the concept of earning vulnerability and the importance of feeling safe and supported in order to open up. They also explore the different levels of vulnerability and how trust is built over time. The conversation shifts to building friendships with colleagues in the sex-positive community and the unique connections that can be formed. They share personal stories of meeting influential figures in the field, such as Lucie Fielding and Dan Savage, and the impact these encounters had on their lives. In this part of the conversation, Michelle and Adelina discuss Michelle's experience with Dan Savage, the fear of rejection, the unpublished episode, self-reflection and validation, and the mystery behind it. They also talk about embracing their inner dork, the success of Soft Cock Week, the podcast journey, favorite takeaways from interviews, quotable moments, the challenges of recording, the Soft Cock Week events, the glitch and the help, the underlying message of Soft Cock Week, the beauty of free-form conversations, and the Intimacy Lab experiment.
Takeaways
Vulnerability is earned through feeling safe and supported.
Different levels of vulnerability exist, from sharing personal experiences to entrusting someone with your care and life.
Building friendships with colleagues in the sex-positive community can be a source of connection and understanding.
Meaningful encounters with influential figures in the field can have a profound impact on personal and professional growth.
Adelina Adler is a sex coach and sex educator based in Wilmington, NC. You can find Adelina on Instagram at @askaddyadler. She is the host of Sexplorations! with Adelina Adler on Spotify.
Michelle Renee (she/her) is a San Diego-based Intimacy Guide and Surrogate Partner. Michelle's website is https://meetmichellerenee.com and can be found on social media at @meetmichellerenee.
Have questions you'd like answered by Michelle or her guests? Leave them at IntimacyLabPodcast.com.
Notes from today's show:
Interview with Paul on Queer Relationships, Queer Joy
Joli Hamilton, polyamory coach
How Cuddlist changed my life, podcast episode 3
Episode 4 where I answer the love question with Vanessa
The Intimacy Professionals - more can be found here
Lucie Fielding's Trans Sex
Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski
Esther Perel's Mating in Captivity
Get Naked with Dr Kate Episode with David Khalili
David Khalili's books: Mental Health Workbook for Men and Sex Worriers
Michelle's Newsletter Sign Up
Rough Transcript:
Michelle Renee (she/her) (00:01.904)
Welcome back to the Intimacy Lab with Michelle Renee, that's me. I have my wonderful friend and colleague, Adelina Adler, joining us today because we're going to do a soft cock week wrap up. Wrap up your soft cock. Yeah. We're doing video this week, which isn't always the norm for this, but I've...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (00:14.954)
Mmm, wrapping it all nice and cozy. Love that.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (00:25.89)
We like experimenting, new things.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (00:27.776)
I feel like I can go back and forth. I wanted to make this more approachable for people that weren't comfortable being on video. I'm super comfortable being on video. I conquered this fear a long time ago.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (00:35.926)
Mm.
Oh yeah, me too.
Heck yeah, I mean it could always be an option. Either or, you can have it and then take away the video. Options are nice.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (00:49.192)
Here's my vision when I first started this was I wanted it to be a place where clients could come talk about their work with touch professionals.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (00:56.983)
Ooh, I love that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (00:59.172)
and not having video makes it much more anonymous. So I was kind of setting the tone with that, but I love video. I don't mind it. And actually, you know what? It's easier for me to send the podcast out when I include video. It's actually more work for me to do it without video because then I have to actually go in and do things to make it.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:03.757)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:16.334)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:26.124)
ready for like YouTube and things like that. So.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:29.77)
And that settles it. In video it is for this time. Plus we get to see your cute dog. I just saw a little fluffy tail and that was wonderful.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:35.48)
Yeah, he just like flopped himself on the floor. Very like dramatic flop because he gets hot.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:41.986)
I'm waiting for my boy to at some point in time include his opinion because he is very vocal. So I had a talk with him beforehand and said, we can talk about this afterwards, Brickstopher. But for now, shh, it's mommy. Hold that thought.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:53.976)
Just hold that thought. Yeah, no, mine's like a little terrorist. He's like a three year old when you want something and he will. He knows that his bark makes me jump to do anything to get it to shut the fuck up. And any of my clients that are listening to this, they know. They know, except for maybe if you're an East Coast client. I used to use a doggy daycare, which was quite the luxury to like take my dog and drop him off and like, mom has got to work today.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:59.758)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Uh-huh.
They've got us trained.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (02:12.75)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (02:23.486)
I bet they had a good time. Those doggy daycares are pretty luxury sometimes. They've got like little mist baths, little salt pools, some of that. There was one locally that was amazing. It's gone now.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (02:25.196)
And that means you got to be quiet.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (02:35.46)
Oh, mine doesn't didn't do that, but he was considered a senior, one of the more the older, older dogs. And so he got to sit behind the counter with the dogs that had just recovered from surgery or things like that, that were being watched extra careful. And he just sat on someone's lap the entire day that he was there. And so.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (02:49.779)
Oh, that's precious.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (02:55.818)
Oh, that still sounds amazing. I want to be... I always say that, you know, free incarnation is a thing. I want to be a sweet dog or cat. Cats have a lot of mobility. I've been watching Mr. Kidders and his adventures on TikTok. And I want to be in a loving family that can afford to take care of me. That caveat is very important. Mm-hmm. Nice and cozy.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (03:14.704)
Hmm.
Yeah, I don't know if I can always afford to send my dog to take care. But it was, it just felt necessary at some point. I haven't done it here yet in San Diego. And part of it is that I don't want to have to drive to take my dog and drop him off somewhere before a session. It just, so instead.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (03:25.63)
Hehehehehehe
Adelina Adler (She/They) (03:36.61)
That's fair. Have you had any awkward cold snoots in places interrupting you? Is that? Okay. Okay, okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (03:43.284)
No, I mean, he doesn't come into session. He doesn't come into session with me unless it's been negotiated. Yeah, I do have a client that we negotiated a sliding scale rate and part of that rate was, can my dog just be with us? Because it makes for less stress on me. I put my husband through the keep the dog quiet in another space kind of responsibility and it's hard on him too. So yeah, I'm making my goals for the new year.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (04:00.011)
Mmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (04:04.861)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (04:12.558)
Thank you.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (04:13.021)
By the end of 2024, I want an office space.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (04:16.442)
I love this, we're manifesting it, let it happen. Let it be so, a good little office, maybe a co-working space. Mm-hmm, Michelle Renee is coming to you.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (04:20.228)
Yeah, no, I have a plan. I have a plan, San Diego, watch out, because I plan to be, I plan to be in a therapy suite with other therapists. So, preferably ones that really love what I do and we can offer some wraparound care, right?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (04:32.11)
Hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (04:39.406)
I love that. It's all in one little concentrated space. Beautiful. You can have a really nice lush little cozy office. Oh, I dream of the day. Goals. Heck yes. Hi everyone.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (04:48.152)
And if we were all collaborating too on top of it, oh my god.
the cool things that could happen. Anyways, Adelina Adler, you should introduce yourself. Let the people know where this voice is, who this voice is attached to.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (05:02.422)
Hello, Soul Tree listeners of the Intimacy Lab. I am Adelina Adler, pronouns are she, they. I'm a sex coach and educator based in Southeastern North Carolina, focusing mainly on GSRD populations, gender, sex, and relationship diverse communities with over four years of experience in empowerment education and community-built initiatives. I'm also a former sex worker, current kinkster, and host of the Sexplorations with Adelina Adler podcast.
available on YouTube and Spotify, which will be coming back next month in a big way. And I'm super excited. I will be having Michelle as one of my guests. In fact, that recording will be happening, I think. Oh my goodness. Next week. Yeah. I should probably get started on making those notes.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (05:44.78)
One day. Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (05:53.112)
We are recording on Thursday, November 16th. I just want to note this because we need a fast turnaround. This one's dropping tomorrow. So this is going to be real, almost live. It's almost a live podcast. Yeah. I got kind of tied up in soft cocks. So.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (06:01.431)
Mmm.
Oh, wow. Okay. You're getting it fresh, hot and steamy. We love that. We love all of those things.
You know what? That's not a bad thing to be tied up and surrounded by soft cock. Yeah, you can. Yes, you can. I I've tied many a soft cock with a nice little thin 550 cord. It's useful.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (06:16.472)
You can tie a soft cock, right? You could actually tie one up. You mean you could tie a knot in it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (06:28.42)
See, you are going to fit in to this space so well, Adelina, not just in like my professional world, but in my heart. In my heart.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (06:30.565)
Hahaha!
Adelina Adler (She/They) (06:39.966)
I have nestled my way one soft cocktie at a time. That's nice. I like, I like good nestled bosoms. That's good. It's a perfect.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (06:42.008)
You've nestled your way into my bosom. Yeah. So I got a little carried away with Softcock, Softcock Week podcast. If you're not listening to it, go check it out. It's also on your favorite podcast app, much like this one is. I did a lot of interviews for that and I kind of put this one on the back shelf, this podcast on the back shelf for a little while. And so I was kind of in a pinch and I was like,
Adelina Adler (She/They) (07:11.342)
I'm gonna go to bed.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (07:11.756)
You are part of Soft Cock Week, come do a rap with me.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (07:14.75)
Yeah, I'll do it. I prepared four bars. They're kind of okay. I'm not a very good rapper or freestyler, but I will do my best. I'm sure. Oh, no.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (07:24.324)
There's video out there somewhere from middle school where I was in a church production.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (07:32.864)
Oh, go no-oh.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (07:35.248)
Some I don't remember what it was called. I don't remember what the musical was called If I thought real hard maybe had a little bit of hypnosis I could probably figure it out It was a 50s theme. Yeah, if you hear if you hear my dog, he's right in the microphone right now. So um Yeah, whatever, um, I am NOT a perfectionist That is something if I if you have any nerve to like contact me and tell me about the quality of this podcast
Adelina Adler (She/They) (07:47.095)
Dig deep in that repressed, repressed memory. Oh, ASMR.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (08:04.408)
You will not get a response from me. I don't care. It was a 50s theme, kind of poodle skirts. I think something Malt Shop was the title. I don't even know. Yeah, look confused. It's OK. It was West Michigan in the 80s, I think. Late 80s. Yeah, I don't.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (08:07.447)
delete.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (08:14.942)
Was it like grease? Like?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (08:24.285)
I am.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (08:27.646)
I'm here trying to figure out like a punny name for this, this 50s style. I can't. Yeah, prayers and poodle skirts or something like that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (08:34.484)
Yeah, so it also Christian based musical, right? There was a point I had to wrap in it. How does that tie into 50s based poodle skirts? I don't know, but there was like, right.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (08:44.862)
I mean, it was the 80s though, like, and everything had a rap in it. Like every there was a cartoon animal rapping at people left and right. I think the Christian artist Carmen was also rapping at that point. I had that cassette.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (08:52.419)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (08:56.536)
Mmm. Okay. Yeah. So there I know I have it. I've seen it. It's in my memory banks. And I say that as someone who has aphantasia I do not see pictures, but I do remember feelings. Feelings are burned into me. It is so hard for me to forget how I felt, which has been really hard on my relationship. And one day we'll bring Paul in to talk about this. And actually one of my friends goes,
Adelina Adler (She/They) (09:09.934)
but it's burned in there.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (09:24.404)
We'll have a therapeutic session.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (09:27.384)
No, the other day I was at the beach, I was at Black's Beach, and one of my lovers who I've talked very kindly of on many of podcasts, the Pussy Whisperer, if you're out there, the Pussy Whisperer, he's a fan. He's a fan of the show and of me. And we were at Black's Beach the other day and he says, I haven't heard Paul on the show yet. And I'm like, it'll happen. Like.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (09:37.674)
I was about to say, was it the whisperer? Was it the whisperer? Your fame, sir.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (09:56.72)
Calm down, it'll happen. I'm like, we've interviewed together before and he hadn't heard that. So I sent him a link to another podcast that Paul and I were on together at one time. So yeah. Anyway, we can have a little podcast and not even get to the.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (09:57.502)
Eventually, yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (10:07.47)
So what I'm hearing is when you find this footage, so what I hear is when you find this long lost footage, you and Paul are gonna come on here together and do some heavy therapeutic deconstruction. Oh yeah, make a whole music video for it. By the way, we're wrapping off soft cock week.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (10:12.633)
What were you saying, Eddie?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (10:21.984)
recreate the wrapping. No, that's not gonna be what happens. No. The point being, right, the point being, let's circle back here, the point being that I have some trauma, big surprise, we all do, right? I have some trauma in my history that is really hard for me to kind of move past.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (10:41.69)
Yes.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (10:51.48)
I had a really lovely session with, again, names are really failing me today. So I'm not going to, I'm losing it. Anyways, a lovely session with someone who is a poly coach. And we were not in a coaching session, but I was just like giving her some information about my experience around non-monogamy. And she's a jealousy researcher. Why is her name not coming to my head?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (11:05.5)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (11:18.641)
Oh, I love that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (11:21.068)
Oops, sorry. I will get that into the show notes. Yes. Show notes will always save me, right? That is my mantra. And when I brought up the aphantasia that I don't see pictures, she goes, oh. Well, this gets a little more complicated. Like, because she was asking me, like, could you just, like, what is, like, could you paint a different picture in your head? Of like, think of like,
Adelina Adler (She/They) (11:23.862)
Put it in the show notes, yes. Whenever it fails, you put it in the show notes. It'll be there later.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (11:38.643)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (11:49.932)
What are you afraid of? Like, let's make a better picture, right? And I'm like, actually the thing is, is like I don't see pictures. And she's like, oh, well then.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (11:58.51)
So she was doing a lot of visualization work where there is just nothing.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (12:04.592)
She's like, it's like, it's like a strike through, right? The story is still there.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (12:08.223)
I mean, like you can work. Yeah, you can work with the feeling though, right? Because the visualization sometimes, like I get or I build, I can build from a feeling, especially when I'm working through something. I'll ask, what am I feeling? What is the sensation that I'm experiencing? Then I'll be like, what would I like? What's the remedial?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (12:24.484)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (12:31.826)
experience and then I build the idea or like what does that look like? What does that feel like? What does that sound like? And those can still be, you know, you can at least do the feeling part, I guess, right?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (12:44.512)
Again, this wasn't a coaching session. So she wasn't, I wasn't paying her to like take me through this, right? Like this was just a please Michelle share. Now, share your experience with me. I'm a jealousy researcher, I would love to hear more kind of thing. And so So the general the quick without me paying for a lot of work around this was like, oh, yeah, with aphantasia, it's a little more complicated that you hold on to these The
Adelina Adler (She/They) (12:47.138)
Oh yeah, she was going... This is just how I talk to my friends anyway.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (12:57.202)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (13:13.036)
what you hold is the feeling. I can tell you exactly how I felt in a space. I can't describe what the space was, right? And in that, since I see things in like words, it's like having a strike through the memory. Like you can rewrite the memory, but you can't really erase it.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (13:19.618)
interesting.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (13:23.657)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (13:27.475)
Uh-huh.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (13:31.606)
That's so interesting. I wonder if like writing it out, like literally writing out the story and then rewriting the story physically would help in a way. I don't know, that's me going, oh. This is always so fascinating to me.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (13:40.932)
Hmm. I wonder. Yeah. Anyways, it totally shows up. If you want to be the moderator of the next of the first conversation with Paul in this space, you would probably really love it. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm going to tap into, I think this could turn into the Addie and Michelle show. Okay. So before we get started in the usual, we're not really strangers.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (13:55.13)
Oh, I'd love it. Oh, yes, please. You know, I volunteer for everything you do.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (14:10.092)
I want to say real quick, the December cohort of the Cuddlist Basic Training has some openings in it. So if you were thinking about joining the December cohort, there is a 10% off code that I'll put in the show notes. It's always available. But I'm just saying, if you wanted to do it, you need the first two weeks of December kind of free, not completely free. It's like an hour or so of work a night is expected of you.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (14:10.186)
Hmm?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (14:27.85)
in the shoutouts.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (14:37.794)
That's not bad.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (14:40.312)
basic training in two weeks. So if that's something that you're interested in, go to go to the show notes and get the code. Cause I think you probably want to save some money. But if you don't, you can just go to cuddle list.com and look at the training there. But anyways, I just want to drop that because we are recording so like, I know when this is coming out, I can throw a little, a little plug for Cuddlist, which mind you, I am the director of training there. I am definitely, I do not.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (14:49.491)
Mm-hmm.
Play the whole thing.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (15:03.465)
Always.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (15:09.452)
I do make a little money off of that code. I'm going to be completely honest, but I'm not an owner in the company. But I do highly endorse, or I wouldn't be the director, but also it changed my life. And if you don't know that story, you can go back to one of the previous episodes and listen all about it. Anyhow, so it is a really great program. Totally changed my life. Anyways, so we're not really strangers.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (15:12.962)
We're candid.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (15:25.866)
It's such a great program, honestly.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (15:34.55)
We're gonna play. We're gonna play a game.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (15:39.8)
Normally beforehand, I've, well, normally I've only done this with one other guest. Let's be fair. This is episode four, I think. So in episode three, Vanessa and I, we went through, I picked a card out of each level and then we decide which one we were going to answer. But Addie and I are going to go.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (15:58.154)
them.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:01.012)
We're gonna do this differently. Let me adjust my seat. I need to get ready for this. Okay.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (16:05.113)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:07.512)
This is going to turn into like a Joe Rogan length podcast. I'm pretty sure by the time we're done, but that's okay. Do you have a hard stop today?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (16:12.47)
But without the s-holery. Oh, what? Yeah, without the problematic bits.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:16.232)
Well, without the misogyny in the hands, we'll hurry up.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:24.44)
I do appreciate some of the guests that are on there on occasion, so you will hear me listen to it once in a while. Adelina, do you have a hard stop today?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (16:26.438)
It's true. There are some really good guests.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (16:34.618)
Uh, no. I am wide open. I have... Thank you though. I appreciate you looking into my time.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:36.277)
Okay, good. Okay. I just want to make sure.
I want to make sure we have time to get to the soft cock and then we don't get...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (16:44.655)
We're taking 30 minutes. Yes, let's do it. Around the world with us. It's good. All right.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:47.341)
Right? Okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (16:51.744)
I kind of love this video. So anyway, OK, so we're not really strangers. We're going to do a card. I'm going to randomly choose a card from each of the three levels, and we're going to answer each one of them this time. OK, so level one is the perception level. Oh, I don't like wild cards. Let me draw again. It's like a conversation kind of card deck thing called We're Not Really Strangers.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (17:05.446)
Challenge mode.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (17:09.634)
Mm. I need to get this card set. What is this set?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (17:18.494)
I want it. Oh, that's what the thing is called. Okay, because I want to get this. This is fun.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (17:24.852)
And they have lots of add-ons, like they have not even just add-ons, but you can buy different sets for like when it's family and not like, like specifically for family. They've like ones for like younger children. They have like first date sets.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (17:38.806)
Oh. Okay. Not a sponsor yet, but maybe. I'm just kidding.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (17:46.508)
I don't know. I mean, I do, I'm going to put a link in the show notes and it is an Amazon affiliate code. So I might make 30 cents off it or something if you click on it. Okay. I don't do this podcast to make money. Initially, I do this podcast so people can get to know me better. Maybe they want to come work with me in San Diego. Right? Yeah. Okay. And I just think it's fun.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (17:51.278)
Hehehehe
Adelina Adler (She/They) (17:54.926)
Hell yeah, rake in the bags.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (18:08.706)
Hell yes. Good. I love this.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (18:13.872)
So our first question from the perception level, how many speeding tickets do you think I've gotten in my life? And we're both gonna answer this question for the others. So, Adelina, tell me, how many speeding tickets do you think I've gotten?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (18:24.798)
Ahhhh.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (18:31.73)
I'm going to say a solid three.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (18:34.32)
Okay, and I'm gonna guess you've gotten, whoo, I bet you you're a speed demon. And we're gonna come back and we'll comment on what the truth is. I bet you you've had at least six.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (18:47.606)
Okay, well now listen, I'm gonna have to count. Like, okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (18:51.073)
Okay.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (18:56.319)
I think I actually have four and I got a majority of them. One of them was just pure BS, let me tell you. Cause that, I have been driving since I was, well, technically I've been driving since I was 18, but I had my own car since I was.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (19:03.78)
How many years have you been driving? I just wanna ask the question.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (19:18.53)
Oh wow, technically since 2011. 2011 is when I got my first car for myself. Other than that, I was driving my friend's cars. Never got a speeding ticket on my friend's cars, but I used to drive from here to Jacksonville.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (19:28.304)
So.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (19:33.138)
Okay. Well, I just like how many years of experience. Time behind the wheel.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (19:36.11)
Oh, oh, plenty. Like, yeah, since 18, I'm 35 now. So, math. So I thought for you three, for me, it's not quite as high as six. I think for me, it's four. Like, and I've gotten most of them dismissed. Except for one. Oh, yeah, I've got a Dodge Charger. I am alert.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (19:42.18)
So you've had how many you think?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (19:54.116)
You just seem like somebody who likes to drive fast.
Okay, I did not know this about you. Okay, I have gotten zero.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (20:06.915)
Oh, dude. Oh, oh.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (20:08.316)
Not even a warning. And it's not that I don't speed. Well, some years, let me tell you, when I switched over to a Ford Escape Hybrid, I was like, you can't even fucking take off in this car. Like you better look down the road very far to make sure you have enough time to get up to speed. Right.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (20:11.69)
You drive a granny car. You're doing this. Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (20:19.804)
You can't.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (20:26.6)
I can't, I get claustrophobic in cars like that. I drove my friend's car. She is also a very slow driver. Surprisingly much more dangerous driver than I am.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (20:37.08)
I'm not a slow driver. I won't say I ever like, I say like around 10 above the speed limit is like my comfort zone. I'm a very assertive driver and very confident driver. Like.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (20:45.084)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (20:49.234)
Oh yeah, me too. Yes, me too. I'm like Jason Statham. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Michelle Renee (she/her) (20:54.88)
Yeah, I say that because my husband is, I'm like, are you just, I can feel your nervousness. Is it because I'm in the car with you or is it like you're this all the time? And he's like, this is just how I am, been in a few car accidents. I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. So I'm, I'm the driver in our family and only a couple of my friends do I feel really good about letting them drive. So, so I have zero and I've been driving 32 years. So
Adelina Adler (She/They) (21:08.4)
Oh, I do feel that.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (21:17.173)
Mm?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (21:21.058)
Congratulations. That is impressive, honestly. Congratulations, you got like a little achievement unlocked.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (21:26.644)
I hope I'm not like, I don't want to be like, I'm not here. I'm not looking to like, like press my luck here, not to jinx or anything like that.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (21:36.966)
Yeah, knock on someone right now.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (21:40.048)
California Highway Patrol do not target my cars. And honestly, I drive cars that don't look like speed demons. You have a charger, my son has a charger. I should ask him if he's gotten his first ticket yet. I drive little micro machines, right? Like I have a Yaris, a little Toyota Yaris and a little Chevy Spark. Like.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (21:42.626)
Ha ha!
Adelina Adler (She/They) (22:00.41)
I was Michelle. I literally was gonna make the joke that you were driving around a Chevy spark Like I cuz that was the car that my friend was driving like I was that does did not take off I know exactly what you're talking about
Michelle Renee (she/her) (22:06.189)
Seriously.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (22:10.336)
Yeah. It's super cute. It's so cute. And I bought it because it was on sale. Like I didn't, I just, you know, it was a couple years ago and car prices have been stupid, right? And this was actually discounted. And I was like, I think it's because of the color. It's a very loud color. I ended up really falling in love with it eventually. But anyways, it's cute. Okay. I know we can do this all day.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (22:23.263)
Oh yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (22:29.59)
Yeah sure, that's the only reason.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (22:34.324)
Alright, next card, next card. Enough about my, enough about our cards.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (22:40.544)
Okay, level two is connection. I hate the wild cards. If you buy this deck, you'll understand. Okay.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (22:48.906)
That's too much responsibility, I don't want to come up with it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (22:53.444)
Well, they're also, they feel way more vulnerable for me when I've done them in session with clients. That's what I love these cards for in session cards. So.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (22:58.491)
Oh... Ah...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (23:03.608)
Have you ever told someone I love, oh, we did this last time with Vanessa. Okay, but we can answer it again. I already answered it and I'm not gonna repeat myself. So go back to episode three if you wanna hear my answer to this, Adelina. Have you ever told someone I love you, but I didn't mean it and if so, why?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (23:23.374)
Hmm, no. I have been very forthright from the beginning. I, even when I became sexually active or romantically active, I always made a point to not waste anybody's time or my own with insincerity. Like if I felt back then, I was like, if I feel the need to cheat on you or the impulse to cheat on you, and you know my ideas on these things have evolved since then, but.
Uh, the, the point was back then I would say I'd rather tell you outright and, you know, spare us both, uh, you know, wasted time. Like then we can move on. I decide if we want to keep going, renegotiate what we're doing or go separate ways. So I was always really good about not doing that. Plus the way I love people because ding ding, I'm polyamorous.
The way I conceive of love, I used to say, I love in different levels. Like that's how I, the language I used back in the day, I was like, I have different levels of love. And like, I love you, but on a certain level, that's not quite how I love this person or not quite how this person is loved. It was early language for the sensation and sentiment, but yeah, like, so when I said it, I would mean it. I would mean it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (24:47.864)
Yeah. Well, just the very short version of what I answered, because I think it's fair for you, Adley. You're probably like, but Michelle, what's your answer? What came up for me in this question was when I've said it out of obligation, that I did love the person, but it was really an expectation that I returned that sentiment every time we hung up the phone. This is when I was married the first time. So if you withheld it, there was a lot of emotional paperwork.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (25:01.911)
Hmm
Adelina Adler (She/They) (25:13.177)
Oh, I see.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (25:17.676)
that was going to come down the line, right? And so it just became very repetitive, a habit. And so it kind of lost a little bit of its meaning. Yeah. So now, I don't feel like I have to say, like if my partner says, love you, I don't feel I have to say, love you back. I just go, I know you do. And he really loves hearing that because he wants to convey.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (25:17.974)
Yeah, yeah that makes sense.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (25:26.218)
Like a chore, like.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (25:30.51)
Mm-hmm. That makes sense. That makes sense.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (25:47.622)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (25:48.036)
that he loves me and he wants me he wants to know that I feel that from him. So that's like it. I don't have to answer a certain way anymore. Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (25:56.262)
Yeah, yeah, I love that for you. I'm glad you got that space. Or found that space.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (26:00.584)
Yeah, I can't wait for you two to meet. We'll do it on an actual recording. That way we make it an episode. Okay. Level three is reflection. It's wild cards, god damn it. Keep pulling them. I just wanna pull all the wild cards out of the deck and never do them. So I should just modify my own deck.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (26:06.734)
That's perfect.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (26:15.05)
It just wants to go wild, Michelle.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (26:25.48)
Oh, how does one earn your vulnerability?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (26:26.823)
Oh, it's...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (26:30.274)
Oh
Michelle Renee (she/her) (26:31.864)
Have I earned it and how can I earn more?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (26:36.702)
That's a banger question. Oh, 100 points for that one.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (26:42.24)
I can go first if you want, because I know you went first on the ticket one. Okay. Yeah. How does one earn my vulnerability? Well, okay, so I want to, I need to say, people think of me as really vulnerable because I share a lot, right? I'm really open. But I don't think that it's really vulnerability if it's not scary.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (26:44.85)
Yeah, yeah, go ahead. You go first. Give me a minute to mull.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (27:02.987)
Hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (27:09.938)
Yeah, that's how I feel about it. That's how I feel about it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (27:13.132)
Yeah, so like for me, the real vulnerable shit, Lord, if you haven't seen me in tears yet, you haven't tapped into my vulnerability yet. You just think that you have, like that you have access to it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (27:31.476)
When I say something like, before this call, Adelina and I were talking about intakes, like we were getting to know our clients. And I said something like, you know, it's important that I give a little vulnerability to get a little vulnerability. But that's a different, that's a different, for me that's about me sharing about my personal life so that they share a little bit more of their personal, like a give and take there. That's not what I'm talking about here.
I'm talking about who do I let really see that intimacy, right? Perfect for the name of this podcast. Glenn or Len Daly, who was a trainer for Cuddle Party for years, he used to say, and I'm sure he's not the first person that said this, but I just hear him in my head and it's on the top of my website. Into me, you see. Right. That's what intimacy is. And so that for me is like.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (28:05.085)
Yeah?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (28:25.364)
Oh, I'm letting down the pretty drapes, but like pulling back the curtain to like what isn't so polished.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (28:36.226)
The Wizard of Oz kind of man behind the curtain. Pain on the... Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (28:41.085)
Yeah. So, how do you earn that with me? I must feel a lot of safety. Like, I have to feel incredibly safe with you. I have to feel like you can hold space for me to actually.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (28:44.686)
That was my chair.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (28:48.372)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (28:54.366)
Okay, I was about to say, what does safety look like to you, or feel like to you though? Like, what does that entail?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (28:59.256)
Well, it's how do I feel with a person is a lot of it, right? What am I noticing inside of me about how safe do I feel? It can look like.
How does this person handle difficult conversations? How do they respond to others? Are they able to self-reflect and take ownership and accountability, things like that? It's a pretty high fucking bar, honestly, as I'm sitting here talking about it.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (29:18.852)
Mmm, mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (29:27.266)
That's a great one. That's a, that's a great one. I definitely add that one in my pool.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (29:33.408)
And some of it I don't have any of that proof to, I just let them hold the space, right? So like, cause I was thinking about like, there's lovers in my life that I have said, hold really great space. And I'm like, but how, how did I know they could do that? I didn't, I just trusted and I tried it and I saw their response or their lack of response, right? Like, can I open? Yeah, can I be open?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (29:39.189)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (29:54.83)
Took a little risk. Yeah. You put a little feeler out there.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (30:02.144)
and they don't try to fix it or run away or they can just hold it. There's a maturity, right? So it's kind of, I get to hand out the golden ticket kind of thing. And I can't say for certainly how always I decide who gets the golden ticket. Brian Gibney, who was on episode two, he always gets the golden ticket. Like that man.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (30:06.868)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (30:10.795)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (30:17.028)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (30:29.994)
Yeah, he does give very good vibes. As overused as that term is, instantaneously you feel safe around him, which is wild.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (30:35.576)
Ugh.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (30:41.412)
He knows, like, I don't ever hesitate to tell him the darker stuff, right? My husband clearly is that person too, for sure. But like, go through the episodes. Episode one, Sarah. She gets the golden ticket, right? You know, I can go through, this is what I want about this podcast though, is that it would be a lot of people that are really close to.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (30:46.87)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (30:59.254)
Hehehehe Yay
Michelle Renee (she/her) (31:10.26)
Yeah, so how does one earn your vulnerability? Have I earned it? Have you earned it, Adelina? I've cried with you.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (31:15.814)
Yup, I was about to say, I was like, I think I have a golden ticket.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (31:20.064)
You do. Yeah, we've, um, uh, again, I don't know why we we've met through a colleague and we shared a like a one on one and, and like, now I wouldn't be opposed to sending you a Marco Polo of me on the toilet, right? Like, that's when you hit a certain level is when I'm, when I'm Marco poloing you, while I'm peeing, like you've hit
Adelina Adler (She/They) (31:40.443)
Totally fine.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (31:46.687)
You're Poopoo Pee friends. My best friend and I are definitely those friends. All the golden tickets to the chocolate factory. I see.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (31:49.9)
You've hit the inner circle.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (31:55.584)
Yeah! Yeah. Oh fuck, no, I still don't do that if I'm taking a shit. That is nuts!
Adelina Adler (She/They) (32:06.158)
That's where you're like, that's where my boundary is. That is our limit. The P happens. I think y'all, the intimacy professionals all heard me P because I didn't know how to do my phone on Zoom, Zoom on my phone and I had forgotten to mute it. Remember when you were like, Adelina, you're unmuted. Girl, I was in the bathroom. I was washing my hands. I was flushing the toilet. I was chasing the dogs.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (32:06.504)
I still have, that is a limit. There is, I have limits.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (32:19.376)
Ciao.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (32:27.985)
I
I don't think I remember hearing that part, but hey, I just knew you were talking, I think. Yeah, no, I mean, I pee on the intimacy professional calls a lot. I just mute and walk out and go to the bathroom and come back in and have y'all in my earbuds. But yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (32:32.834)
Thank God!
Adelina Adler (She/They) (32:36.495)
mortified!
Adelina Adler (She/They) (32:42.123)
Now you know it. Now you know it.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (32:49.166)
Okay, good, because I did have a moment of panic. I was like, well, they've gained access. They're like, ah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (32:56.868)
Yeah. So yes, you have it. How can you earn more? I mean, just I think the like, just being consistent in not that you have to show up consistently, but being a, a consistent in how you respond to life. Like, you know what I mean? Like,
Adelina Adler (She/They) (33:18.286)
presence.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (33:22.878)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, I get that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (33:26.656)
If I saw you respond to something else very like uncentered or out of character, yeah, then I would be like, oh wait, maybe I can't really trust you. Oh, you know what? This kills me. If I hear you talk shit about somebody and then I see you kiss their ass, you can be cordial, right? But if I see that, yeah, I'm like, oh, I don't know if I trust.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (33:32.094)
Like out of character and weird. Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (33:46.699)
Mmm... hypocrisy.
but hypocrisy.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (33:54.938)
That's dirty.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (33:56.404)
Now I don't know if you are being genuine with me.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (33:59.455)
Mm-hmm, that was the first lesson I learned as a kid, like...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (34:01.22)
And then I'll pull back. I'm a Scorpio. You'll be lucky if all I do is pull back, I might just burn the bridge. Right? Like, yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (34:05.854)
Mm-hmm. Oh my goodness. Yeah, you'll burn the bridge, create a moat. There'll be alligators and perennas in it. Like, no getting in. Oh, I got it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (34:15.704)
No, I don't, I just pretend you don't exist again. Like, it's not, there's not even, yeah, there's not even a ceremony around it. It's just, it's very cold and yeah. So that's, yeah, anyways. So you, my dear.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (34:19.766)
That's true. You're just like, you go back to level zero.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (34:30.714)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (34:34.542)
Full disclosure, full disclosure, I am a Gemini and we get really bad flak for being two-faced, which is a sophomoric take on this sign. It is about understanding duality and complex situations and the nature of multiple contexts. A strong, evolved Gemini is able to understand things from multiple perspectives and hold space for multiple perspectives at once, which is a challenge. And yeah, so just letting you know.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (35:04.952)
I get you. I'm an Enneagram 2, which is a helper, which is known to have like shitty boundaries, right? I am a evolved master 2, right? Like...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (35:08.832)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (35:17.866)
I have no idea what I am. I looked it up and I forgot it. So one of my witchy friends was like, look at that. Hehehe.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (35:19.652)
boundaries are my shit. It's okay. There's, I don't dive deep into any of these. I don't dive deep into being a Scorpio. I don't dive deep into my Enneagram. I don't dive deep into what is the other one? Like one of them is like human. Myers Briggs years ago. There's another one out there. I can't think of what it is. Anyways, doesn't matter. Okay. So,
Adelina Adler (She/They) (35:33.874)
Myers-Briggs.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (35:42.822)
Yeah. Some other thing.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (35:48.47)
First off to answer that I'd like to like kind of zero in on the answer of what is my vulnerability? Like what does that look like? Um, I think for me, especially with all the recent dreams I've had lately, they've been wild. They've been on the nose. I think vulnerability for me looks like being able to trust my care and my life or the care of me to someone. Hello, Diesel. Please stop being noisy. That's my dog. Other dog. So.
counting on them to be able to when shit hits the fan.
be capable and be present and able to function in a space that helps. Because I'm always the person who is a problem solver. I'm very action-oriented, solution-oriented. And a lot of times in my life I have done that alone. I remember the depressive voice inside my head would say, when you break, you break alone.
and that used to be a very powerful sentiment. So while like you, I am very candid about a lot of things. Like I share, I share, I share, I share. I hold space very well for others. I think I've made it my life's mission to be a safe haven and a welcome place of reprieve for those who usually are also that for other people. Because I understand how it feels when nobody heals the healer.
And so for me to be able to put my fists down, metaphorically speaking, I'm not a big fighter, but I am like, like physically, I'm like, I'm not picking fights. I am much more dialogue based person, negotiator. Yes, I do love and I like deescalating things if things get crazy and good at it too. But I speak of fighting like.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (37:37.956)
Your lover, not a fighter.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (37:49.982)
in the sense of like, you know, activism, like fighting for the downtrodden, like our people who are being taken advantage of or exploited or things like that on bigger scales. And like also just like friend level, things I see a friend being picked on. And I've always been like this, to be able to have someone, and I used to cry thinking about this idea, like just give me a little forehead kiss, unball my hand and just say,
you can rest, it's okay, I've got this, I've got us. And to feel like it's true, that is true vulnerability for me, what it looks like these days. And to be able to earn that, I mean, we're working through years upon years of CPTSD on this run. But I find, and even to this day when I'm surrounded by people who I love and
who genuinely have been super supportive and such a great community, and both friends and lovers who are just some of the most exquisite people I have ever had the honor of being with, I still find it hard. I still find it uncomfortable, like you were saying, uncomfortable to be in the space of, can I depend on you if anything were to ever really go?
awry. And in some segments, in some sectors, yes, absolutely, I can. Like, I know that if I were to ever fall ill or, you know, if I were pregnant or something like that, I know both my partners would be extremely supportive and beautiful and collaborative and all sorts of things. If a killer were to come into my household and try to murder me, I know my roommate would be an amazing
would take immediate action. Like if somebody were to assault me in any way. I know that my one my partners are both very much kind of shields. Like they're very good shields, but they're not swords if that makes sense. I know my roommate who is one of my partner's sister is a great sword and shield and would immediately have my back and do right by me in that sense. So I'm learning
Adelina Adler (She/They) (40:17.398)
to have that complete trust and vulnerability remain open and secure in that. So that's what it takes. In the other levels, that's the deepest level of vulnerability. The other levels of vulnerability are very much like your own, where if you've seen me cry, or if I've been able to tell you a
If I'm free to tell you about all the things of my life and how I experience them and we share ideas and perspectives that are challenging and also just validating and wonderful, I very much love that. That's my golden tickets that I hand out for friendships and companionship. And kind of like you said, I kind of have created these evaluations on
people like people follow patterns sometimes like a lot of people when they're shitty they behave in certain ways they speak in certain ways there's you know there are signs they're flags you know red flags like why is there a green flags and you're absolutely one of those people who say I'm like immediately I thought to myself she reminds me so much of one of my best friends named Nikki that I used to have and she moved away to st. Louis but
And she was my old roomie and everything too. And I love, I still love her to death. Like such a sweet, passionate individual. And so yeah, like there was something, that helped to begin with because you gave me the same emotional signature, I guess like the same feeling, as they call it vibes again. And so it was really easy to be like, huh, all right, she looks cool, she looks friendly. And then yeah, the more we speak, the more we talk, the more I'm like, yeah, no, I,
Michelle Renee (she/her) (41:56.165)
Hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (42:11.456)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (42:12.012)
You're in. You're one of the real ones.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (42:17.473)
and it's a gr- I mean I just- if you identify as a sex geek.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (42:24.26)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (42:25.864)
Like, and I say that from a very inclusive, sex positive, social justice kind of side of life.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (42:37.482)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (42:39.504)
the letter's already a check. Like, okay, you get to come in audition, kind of. You get to come do the tryout.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (42:43.626)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, like you already made it past one of the biggest hurdles that people have if I've got to explain to you like sex work and all these things and I mean it doesn't mean it's impossible But it definitely makes it hard because I don't feel accepted at that point like I feel like I have to explain myself to you my morality my values and Well, I like doing that
Michelle Renee (she/her) (43:06.153)
or that I might...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (43:10.584)
Party fit, party trick
Adelina Adler (She/They) (43:14.223)
Mm, something to be like gawked at and exploited or like sensationalized. Maybe.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (43:23.163)
I mean, I don't think it's always a bad thing. Like, okay, I think it's the difference between like, in my, when I'm in my head, I'm thinking like, the difference between like family and friends.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (43:32.58)
Mm-hmm. I have a hard time with that one.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (43:34.036)
Right? Not chosen family. I'm just saying like blood family. Right? I have pretty good relationships with both my sisters. I have two sisters, one of three girls. I'm the oldest.
I think that walking down the street, would we pick each other as friends? Probably not. We don't have a ton of overlap. But we have mutual experience. We grew up in this, even though we had three different experiences in the same household, we have the history and we have all done enough work on ourselves to where we can share space and not be toxic. Because there's been a lot of work done.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (44:06.676)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (44:23.08)
And I just know going into it that I'm the kind of the party trick if you bring your friends around. You know, like if I show up at one of my sister's house, a lot of times there's going to be a friend that's like, oh, I've been dying to meet you. I've heard so much about you. Yeah, I don't take any offense at that at all.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (44:29.582)
Mm-hmm
Adelina Adler (She/They) (44:35.642)
Yeah, I went to this wedding. It was all that. But she's a sex coach. That was really fun. But at the same time, I'm like, yeah, I'm also a regular ass gal. Yay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (44:47.512)
Oh, one time I did an impromptu how to have anal sex. You know what I mean? Like, I love that. It just makes you a sex geek, right? That's different than being like a close friend. And I find that, I think at this niche in my life of like, I didn't know what I was gonna be growing up. So like, or even when I was approaching 40, I still didn't quite know how the Michelle.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (45:00.342)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (45:17.664)
as an adult in the work world was going to look like.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (45:23.98)
It's as at 48 years old, I can tell you that for me, it's so much easier to build friendships out of colleagues because of the basic level of understanding. And the world that I work in happens to also be, I think just kind of the people that are in this world, it's our passion, right? It's not like...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (45:33.489)
Mm-hmm. Well, there's a lot of mutuality. Yeah, there's a lot of mutuality.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (45:49.195)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (45:51.872)
where it's not like we're, I don't know, any other, like there's so many other kinds of careers that you pick it up because you're good at it or whatever. But like, this is like a way of life. Like I walk through the world, practicing what I preach. And so I think it becomes really easy to build friendships out of colleagues.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (46:07.982)
Absolutely.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (46:13.262)
Yeah, like I completely wholeheartedly agree. The reason I even turned it into a profession was because I recognized that I'm like, dude, I'm doing this all the time. Like I've been having these conversations with people, I've been practicing in these spaces and sharing these experiences. And I didn't know there was anything like this beforehand. And when I found out about it, something clicked. And I was like, oh,
Dude, this, why not? And I think it is the first idea I've had, because I was a jack of all trades, smart, bright. And so there were a lot of niches that I thought I could fit in. And I was like, I want to be a linguist. I want to be a neuroscientist. I want to be this. And eventually, and those were all things that I loved too. I'm super geeky about those things, but the passion for it faded, would always fade.
when I thought about the work involved and things like that. And then this, like it doesn't matter, like I'm fueled by it. Like I am so excited every day for what I get to do and when I get to do it, it lights me up. Like I feel it inside, like a furnace, just like little calcifer and howls moving castle. So yeah, to find other people who have...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (47:38.766)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (47:41.19)
such amazing experiences, such beautiful, awesome insights and viewpoints and who share this love too, is such, it's a beautiful thing. It really is. And yeah, that's why I'm really excited that I've been able to make friends like you. Honestly, I think you're my first friend from that whole group and everything. I think, yay! I have two, I have two.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (48:07.712)
I'm so excited. Yay. I'm such a dork. I will do the thing. I remember when I met...
Oh, names, come on Michelle. Just a second. Pause, I know, pause that, pause that of thought.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (48:21.634)
The name will be in the show notes at the end of the...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (48:30.76)
right here.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (48:31.66)
I'm gonna look up the book, then I'll tell you.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (48:34.467)
We'll pretend we'll cut this part out and it'll be seamless.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (48:38.668)
It automatically will do that with, like, it takes out all the blanks. Like, any dead space, it automatically does that. Ah, yes.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (48:47.726)
We're on Riverside FM, guys. Oh, hold on, hold on, let me, let me.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (48:53.778)
That way you can cut.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (48:54.34)
So at Psych Networker, which is a really, to me, Comic-Con style event in DC every year, it's a longstanding therapy conference. So you get all the top names that, you know, you don't propose to present at Psych Networker. They pick their people. Like there's no sign up. I've looked, right? And so it's like, to me, it's like Comic-Con because I'm a therapy geek and all the great, whoever's got the,
Adelina Adler (She/They) (49:16.994)
Hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (49:23.984)
cool book out and all that kind of stuff. They're the people that are there. And we were super like, we, I say me and Brian Gibney, Lou Sanfilippo, I think she's going back to Lou Hansen and Jeannie Miller, all surrogate partners were all part of this team called Embrace. And so we go to the conference, this was 2022.
And we're really excited because some of the people in my group really know Lucy Fielding well. Lucy Fielding is a trans sex therapist out of Charlottesville, Virginia, where Brian is at and has this really great book called Trans Sex. Super big deal. Still a super big deal, but that was like, they were hitting hard that year, right? When they're presenting at Psych Networker with Emily Nagoski.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (50:03.831)
Oh yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (50:16.508)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (50:21.528)
Like they have a co-presentation together.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (50:21.782)
Ah, I smiled because I realized my partner Dev bought that book recently when our other partner Nico came in. Because he was like, I want to understand more because I don't share her experience and I want to see what it's like. And I'm like, I love you. But yes, now that you said the book name, I was like, oh, and then you said, you know, you know my feelings on Miss Emily Nagoski over here. Love, love.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (50:50.424)
Yeah. Uh-huh. So, so the plan was, is we were going to invite Lucy and Emily to go to lunch with us afterwards. And, um, I'm kind of thrilled that Emily didn't go to lunch with us. I don't even know if she ever got the invitation because I, the minute she started talking, I was fighting back tears. I'm in the front row and I'm just like, like come as you are changed how I saw myself. I've been told that someone's wrong with me for so, so long.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (51:07.89)
Ah!
Adelina Adler (She/They) (51:11.502)
fangirling. Yes.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (51:19.144)
And even though I'd come a long ways before I read the book to really understand my sexuality better. Oh, that book. So I still feel I feel that. Yeah, I feel the emotion come up. Yeah. So I was like, fuck, I can't. How am I going to sit through lunch with this person and like not just like cry?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (51:27.554)
Dude, it has done so much. It has done so much.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (51:40.546)
Oh
Michelle Renee (she/her) (51:41.08)
Like, I have a little bit of like, I try not to like should on myself for my tears, but, or for being just profoundly like unapologetically dorky. So like, to finish this story. So Lucy does come to lunch with us and we all have a lovely lunch. And then...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (51:47.485)
No. Never.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (51:55.018)
Yeah, never, never be ashamed of that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (52:07.924)
It was the next day, day after I get a message from her and she's like, hey, do you wanna go on a coffee adventure with me? And I was like, me? Like, of course I would. I don't need to go to any other sessions during this conference. Take me wherever you want. Right? So we jump in and.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (52:25.998)
Cancel, cancel, cancel.
Yes! Oh, that is so cool!
Michelle Renee (she/her) (52:32.448)
We jump in an Uber, we go to coffee, and by the end of it I just go, okay, Lucy, look, I'm a dork, and so I'm just gonna say it like this, are we friends now? Because I really wanna be friends. Like, I just, like, that's who I am, okay? So, I'm real and I'm fucking authentic, right?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (52:44.57)
Michelle you're adorable.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (52:50.359)
Are you friends?
And I do that's such a breath of fresh air. I think honestly, as soon as I found myself and was like, yeah, no, this is me and I'm owning it and I'm showing it. Yeah, I get the same kind of like feeling and reception and what I need to know. Are you guys friends now?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (53:13.568)
I mean, I haven't been able to hang out with her since then, but we have made attempts. Lucy's very busy, but when I've been coming through Charlottesville, I'm like, hey, wanna get lunch with me and Brian? Like we attempt to make plans and it doesn't happen. I know we will cross paths again and it will be delightful. It'll be delightful. Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (53:17.208)
But your pen pals? Pen pals?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (53:31.794)
It'll happen. It'll happen. Oh, that is so cool. I've been wanting to go to any of these conventions. I know some of them have popped up on the resource emails and things like that. And for me, it's a financial barrier at the moment. I'm still not, you know, making money with my business. It's a very, very young business and the money I am accruing, you know, bills, all this stuff, system that we live
Michelle Renee (she/her) (53:58.638)
It's hard.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (54:01.818)
I have like a list of different events that I want to go to and also geek the F out at so I can see all of these people and just connect because I also just love hearing them speak. Audio books and books are harder for me nowadays to get through. It takes a lot longer. But a good talk will stick with me like very easily. And having conversations with people.
works really well. So yeah, like that's on the bucket list. Getting to go there and maybe I'll get to have din-dins with Emily Nagoski someday.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (54:41.168)
Well, cause you know, I mean, I'm gonna toot my own horn here.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (54:45.838)
Tud away.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (54:47.524)
between Brian and I, at least, if not the rest of our gang, we are very well connected. We are not in the big circles. Like, I would have loved that year, Esther Perel was like the big headliner, right?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (54:59.762)
Oh, the first book I read, Man, Women and Worthy. Wait, nope, that's Brene Brown. Esther Perel is the one who talks about, yes, mating and captivity and cheating and things like that, wonderful. Also, I heard her, I listened to her TED Talks as well. I very much liked her.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (55:06.796)
meeting in captivity.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (55:15.195)
State of the Union was I think the second one.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (55:22.693)
She wore a beautiful leather suit, green leather suit. I was in the front row. Total fan girly.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (55:27.118)
It was... GORL.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (55:37.373)
I've seen her make her way on TikToks now and it's fantastic. I remember like 2015-16 was the first time I heard her speak and she reframed cheating in her conversation and it like reshaped a paradigm, like an entire paradigm in my mind. And
Michelle Renee (she/her) (55:37.602)
Anyways.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (56:01.21)
I was able to understand things from a much more dynamic perspective. And I think honestly, that is one of the pinnacle points or pivotal points that began my journey into looking further into this research that was already out there and all these voices and experiences. Heck yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (56:24.344)
We could do a whole show on people's origin stories of what got them started and their work or how their relationship started. I remember reading American Savage from Dan Savage.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (56:30.514)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (56:37.102)
That'd be interesting.
Dan Savage, yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (56:43.056)
2013. It was my first introduction to consensual non-monogamy. I was like, holy shit, people do this. It was like I was at that time very married, very much eventually coming out of that marriage. But really...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (56:53.888)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (56:57.422)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (57:12.164)
horrible about cheating. Like, part of it was just I didn't want to be in the in the relationship, and that was my escape button. I didn't have the vocabulary, the means. Like, there was a lot of stuff that is not true for me nowadays. Yeah. I had, oh my gosh, if we could list all the reasons why I was still married. I remember going to a therapist and he was like in my 20s, and he was like, people stay married for all sorts of reasons. And I was like,
Adelina Adler (She/They) (57:14.102)
Mmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (57:25.538)
There was just torch it. Torch it somehow.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (57:41.036)
I didn't get it in my 20s. I didn't understand that you would stay married for anything other than just robust love. Yeah, anyways, there's a, again, many, many episodes are probably could spring from these conversations, but yeah, Dan was one of those where I was like, holy shit, I didn't know people could do ethical non-monogamy. I didn't know that was a thing. So yeah, eventually I did read Mating.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (58:02.178)
Mm-hmm. Remember trying to find the words for it when I was younger? I remember going, if I could only clone myself and I could date all of you and it would be okay because all of you need so much love and intimacy in your lives. I see you aching for it. And instead of getting all jealous about each other, we could all just exist and then be happy together. And that would be nice, right? If that was a thing, that'd be nice.
And people just did not, they weren't fans of that idea with me. Holding hands, baby!
Michelle Renee (she/her) (58:37.876)
I remember second grade, I remember second grade, my first boyfriend, I don't even know what that meant, honestly, but he would do the like send a note around that was like, will you go with me, yes or no? And at that time, I think he was going with me and my two best girlfriends, right? Never considered it as, and we never, I don't know what that meant because I don't even think we ever kissed, like it was very...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (58:50.904)
Yes or no?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (58:57.041)
Oh, okay.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (59:06.178)
Look at you trendsetter, trailblazer.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (59:07.224)
But looking back, yeah, looking back, I was like, yeah, compersion was in my DNA, I guess. So funny, because it's not as much there anymore, but.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (59:13.074)
It was in your DNA already. Mm-hmm. It's wild.
It's wild because I think back on it and like I would even, you know, when you have like childhood crushes and things like that on like weird shit. Like I remember having a crush on all the Power Rangers and in my dreams, I would date all of them at the same time. Oh yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (59:37.356)
thinking New Kids on the Block and me and my girlfriends had to split them up. You couldn't have two of you want the same the same one, right? We had to make choices back then and we could have just had a very different idea of how to split up the new kids.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (59:43.379)
You need, you need, yes that's true and then you're like we share.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (59:52.454)
I proposed sharing and again, that was just not a popular decision.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:00:01.008)
Yeah. Last dorky story. So fast forward, I get to talk to Dan Savage when I started soft cock week last year. I randomly tweeted him one day and said, Hey, fake Dan Savage, want to talk soft cocks? And I went to the gym. It was a Tuesday. I go to the gym. I get out of my, I think Sarah and I probably did, you know, weights and some pool and sp-
you know, hot tub time and we're getting dressed and I waiting on her. She's like combing out her hair, like doing extra that day. And I was like, come on, lady. Right. And I'm like, I'll just catch up on my email. Sit down, get in my email. You have a DM from the fake Dan Savage. I like scream in the locker room or tried. I held it back, I'm sure, because I'm very restrained that way. I've been for I'm not completely like, fuck everybody. And I don't care. I do minimize myself a lot.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:00:30.934)
you.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:00:52.018)
internal screams.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:00:57.496)
So I go running over to Sarah and I'm like, look, like point, I can't even talk. Like Dan Savage wants to talk to me, right? We scheduled, we recorded. That's how I found about Riverside cause Dan was using Riverside. I don't know what he's using now. And the first thing I did was I go, can we just take a couple of minutes so I can fangirl for a second? I couldn't even keep my shit together. And he's so humble. He's shy and humble.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:01:03.47)
speechless.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:01:20.481)
I'm sorry.
Get it out of the way, get it out of the way. Oh.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:01:27.657)
and I think I made him uncomfortable.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:01:31.302)
No, probably not. We always think we do afterwards and...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:01:34.836)
I don't know what happened and I'm gonna cry saying this story. We recorded twice that day. The first time we talked about softcock week and a very like we had planned what we were gonna talk about. And it was amazing and he wanted to come back and talk about professional cuddling. He was very interested in that. I thought I'm gonna become his professional cuddler, right? And I went to Instagram and I started crying on Instagram. Because like, this was a fucking dream.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:01:45.58)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:01:51.906)
See, you didn't make him uncomfortable. Mm-hmm, he came back.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:02:02.939)
It is!
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:02:05.036)
And I said, I think we're gonna work together again. And then I got off the Instagram Live and there was an email from him and he's like, can you jump back on? Because I just got this caller left a recording and it's perfect for soft cock week. It was a much more complicated question. Was not as well prepared. We get back on it, we record, it never makes the show. I have reached out multiple times.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:02:20.634)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:02:27.606)
Oh.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:02:33.604)
to ask, like, did I screw something up? I want to know why, like I feel like I got ghosted. I know this is like, it was a wonderful opportunity. It felt so cool that I know that he knows who I am. I've tried a couple of times not to be stalkerish, but to just ask like, is there something that I did? I don't-
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:02:38.71)
Probably not, honey. Sometimes-
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:02:52.223)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:03:01.706)
Yeah, I mean, it comes from a place like there's a deep seated fear there, like, you know, how you were talking about, you know, how to get to your vulnerability. And I think there is a real worry of, you know, feeling rejected from someone who you hold so highly in esteem and, you know, having had that huge platitude of like, whoa, at the opportunity.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:03:03.421)
I don't know.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:03:27.262)
just to have it surrounded then by this weird nebulous anxiety of like, did I screw up? Like, I'm not gonna lie, I feel that every time like after we recorded, I was terrified. I was like, I feel like I was a babbling idiot. Like every time I'm recorded in general. And no, like, you know, I did listen back and I was like, girl, you did it, you did great. But like there already is that innate sense of, oh, did I do okay?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:03:44.272)
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:03:54.742)
And then to have it kind of coupled with that like, oh no, it didn't get published. And then, oh no, he never replied. But we can't assume the worst. Honestly, it was probably some technical shit. Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:03:55.246)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:04:05.076)
I know. I try to treat it like I treat my clients. Well, I tried to treat it like I treat my clients and I in this. Okay. So everybody listening again, this is vulnerable to say that I let myself question. If it was me. I let myself question was I too much? Right?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:04:28.03)
I mean, I think that's also healthy though. Like it's self-reflection. Is it, it's checking, you know, it's checking yourself because it's really easy to go into the space of, you know, it can't be me. But to be able to turn it around and objectively look and be like, was there something I did or could have done better or what was going on there? It helps so much to get validation from the other person too, you know.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:04:39.757)
No.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:04:50.657)
And sometimes...
But sometimes we're not going to get the answers, right? And so, like I would say to my clients, if we're going to make up a story, we might as well make up one that makes us look good, right? And...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:04:55.465)
Yeah, yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:05:03.634)
Yeah, exactly. That's going to flip that. Uno, reverse that to yourself.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:05:10.677)
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe the recording didn't work. Maybe the timing was bad. But well, the timing was really bad because it was, we recorded on a Thursday, soft cock week was starting on Sunday, he drops on Tuesdays. I thought, okay, maybe, maybe it just didn't work out timing wise for that year.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:05:14.942)
That's what I'm saying. Like sometimes Riverside, especially back then, was glitchy. Yeah. Maybe he was like
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:05:28.206)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:05:36.746)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:05:38.84)
But I'm sad about it because it...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:05:40.126)
Remember that Riverside back then too used to have a lot of horrendous, according to Reddit, glitches in its system and its audio tracking. So it could have just been maybe he wasn't happy with because you said, you guys said it wasn't as structured as the first one. It was kind of a difficult question. Maybe a lot of times people are more so judging their own performance and how they did. So maybe more than likely he was preoccupied with I'm not satisfied with how I answered this.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:05:49.177)
Okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:06:02.637)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:06:09.138)
I didn't allow for a good platform for either of us to shine. So I'm just gonna, yeah, Dan, come on, Dan, come on. Give Michelle some, you made Michelle cry. No, just kidding, that's not how the messages work.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:06:13.38)
Well, I would like closure Dan Savage if you hear this. Bring me back to talk about cuddling or something. I don't know, but...
But it is also...
highlight of my career so far to know I got time with him and he was just such a lovely it was such a lovely experience. I do not negate any of that. Like I just wish it could have you know happened but I was myself I was myself. It's that dork right the dork shows up and that is who I am. And so.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:06:30.312)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:06:38.113)
Mm-hmm.
No.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:06:44.482)
the- yeah. Or at least that the anxiety is-
Yeah.
Yup. And you're afraid that someone's gonna be like, you nerd. I feel that like I'm
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:06:59.124)
It's always endearing for the most part. I have to say, like, I could I could bet money. In most cases, my dorkiness actually helps me. It does not hurt me.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:07:01.857)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:07:10.414)
like that's why we get along. I'm obviously a dork too. Like we're both weird dorks and we love what we do and we kind of fly by the seat of our pants and we just enjoy ourselves with what we do. We really take joy in this and in these spaces and that's a beautiful thing. And if he did think you were a nerd, I'm gonna punch him in the face. Yeah, this is a threat.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:07:15.855)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:07:26.028)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:07:34.732)
It's okay. Okay. I appreciate that. And those are not what I need from my friends. I don't I don't really look for friends that are like that. Like, I think it's awesome. I think it's awesome that I have people that would come to bat for me. But I like to do my own. I really part of my own growth has been learning to go to bat for myself, like being able to hold my own and not
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:07:41.024)
No, I know. I remember again.
I don't punch. I verbally punch.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:07:51.37)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:07:58.922)
I love that. Me too. I need to learn that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:08:04.004)
how like, I think it's fine to let other people take up swords for you if you're in that space where you need that. But part of my work has been to try to do that for myself because my inner child needs me to like, yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:08:16.318)
Yeah, same. That's been my challenge lately. Like when I'm at my most cowed, like you said, to be able to stand up for myself in the way that I stand up for others. And no, it's never punching people in the face. I make that as a joke, but it is strongly worded. It's, it is very strongly worded emails. It's my, it's my weapon of choice or messages. I'm very, cause that way you can sit and think, you know.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:08:34.278)
Maybe verbally.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:08:40.685)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:08:45.182)
If I try to say it out loud, I'm like, you, you're mean. You're not nice.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:08:50.504)
Yeah, I don't even know how I've, I feel like I haven't had to address, I live in a really weird bubble. I feel very, very fortunate that I work with people that I really get along so easily with that I'm not confronted with conflict very often. But I do appreciate how I've learned to stand in grace in conflict. Like, like really, I have good role models around me that
have been excellent at helping me have compassion for the person that I'm kind of coming up against.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:09:28.877)
And you're wonderful. I don't want you to forget that you are a wonderful, bubbly, geeky and intelligent person and you do so much wonderful work, so much wonderful things for people. You heal every day. Every day you heal, whether you realize it or not, the moments that you get to see with your clients as well as those lives that you touch through your voice, through these words, like they matter. They echo and resonate far beyond what we may even perceive.
That's no small thing. You are a nice shiny ball of light and you, and you glow up everything around you. Speaking of those projects, Soft Cock Week was a success in my opinion. And did you like that segue? Soft Cock Week was a wonderful success. Hey, Brickstaffer, Brickstaffer. He's pushing my stuff.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:10:10.176)
I know, we've got to, we're an hour and ten minutes into this.
Yes. You and I could... yeah. Okay, so...
Softcock Week was an amazing, wonderful week. And if you didn't catch the live things, I don't know what to tell you other than get on it for next year, right? Get on the mailing list now so that you can try not to miss. I don't know what next year's gonna look like, but whatever it looks like, getting on the mailing list at softcockweek.com, we'll make sure that you have that information.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:10:39.822)
going to be good.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:10:45.162)
Or if you want to be a guest on that list. Mm, mm, reach out.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:10:48.652)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think this year, the big win was the podcast.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:10:57.018)
Oh yeah, the podcast itself, like the whole thing.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:11:03.216)
Yeah, I think for me, it was the most, AI had the most fun doing it. And that's a win. Like, I very much again, I walk the walk. I walk the talk, whatever. This year, I'm great at starting things. I'm not great at finishing them. Well, I'm saying like, I launched it last year. This year became the, what am I, I had high.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:11:07.783)
of that.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:11:15.318)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:11:19.608)
Yes.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:11:24.29)
But you finished it. It's pump-lish.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:11:32.376)
high, high expectations. And I was like, nope, I'm not seeing a yes there. I need to modify. And my yes was showing up around doing the podcast. And so we had seven really great interviews on the podcast. You were one of them. Thank you.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:11:40.864)
Love that.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:11:46.542)
Thank you. What was the most, oh, go ahead, now you go.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:11:50.753)
I think what I loved about...
I was gonna say what I think I loved about our interview the most was that how much you share openly about your life like I do. Like I sometimes like, oh, Michelle, like I think I said one thing, like I choose not to take a route of privacy so much and that I'm really fortunate that my husband is really with me in that, but it would be okay if he had a different choice, right? That...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:12:12.046)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:12:21.94)
he deserves to have a choice in that too. And so when I see like a kindred spirit in this kind of transparency and like, that's not my vulnerability is sharing about that stuff. That's like, I'm a storyteller. I love telling a story.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:12:36.951)
It's so, it's same. It is so important too, I feel, for people to hear that their stories are not isolated, that other people have these experiences. I think that grows community and it grows, it's visibility. It's visibility to be able to see yourself in someone else's life as well. And I think it's one of the most healing things we can do. And that's why I think one of the reasons I just...
I felt so strongly from the beginning of this that yes, I want to be as open and candid with facets about my life because there's nothing to be ashamed of. And this is a normal thing. Sexuality is normal. It's human. It's not gross. It's not meant to just kind of be locked away in a box somewhere. The more we model what it's like to speak without fear about...
our sexual lives. I think we do the world a good service by showing what it can be like, you know? I wanted to ask though, what was like, out of all these wonderful seven people, myself included, that you got to interview, what was like one of your favorite takeaways? Like, what was a piece of information that like you were like, ooh, okay. And you like really adopted and like latched on and put in your collection.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:13:41.666)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:14:02.028)
I could pick one of those out of every event and every interview. So that's like an impossible, there was a highlight for me in every one of them. I'm trying to think, was there something big I actually really learned this year? And I know there was, and what was it? Oh, I think it was with Erica Leroy. I don't know if you caught that interview.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:14:04.142)
Hehehe
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:14:07.584)
That's so good.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:14:26.478)
Not yet. Which one was she? What was the topic on that one?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:14:30.5)
I think she's the one right before you actually. Our topic was masturbation. I mean, in the title, and we talked about lots of things. I met Erica through the West Coast Intimacy Professionals. And she just kind of really was like, oh, you do soft cock week. I have such, like, I have also this passion to educate around that topic. And so we started to meet.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:14:36.784)
Oh yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:15:00.08)
pretty regularly, she had turned into kind of an accountability partner for me. And I'd be like, Erica, here's what I want to do. And then I'd be like, Erica, I can't seem to pull the trigger on any of these things. I'm not feeling my yes. And then I come back, okay, Erica, here's where I think I found my yes at. And she never, she just showed up as like,
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:15:04.994)
Hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:15:29.428)
a witness and like a sounding board. Like it was not come on Michelle, you're you have, you know, you've made these promises to yourself or whatever that you're going to it wasn't that kind of accountability. It was like, yeah, I'm really appreciating your you following your yes. It was like permission to like really embody those things that I
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:15:30.41)
Like a body double for our ADHDers out there. Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:15:45.052)
Mm-mm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:15:57.592)
work so hard to help other people learn how to embody. I, she was kind of holding that. Um, in her episode, the reason why she has this, this connection to soft cock week is a personal story for her. And I thought I made up, I filled in the blank with her on her personal story, that it was about undiagnosed diabetes, losing a partner.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:15:59.944)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:16:27.096)
And if they had noticed that, if they had the soft cock situation looked at by a doctor that was the story that I had filled in the blanks around. No, what I learned there was that it was the lack of ejaculation during sexual encounters. That was the unrecognized sign of diabetes.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:16:55.996)
Oh.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:16:57.572)
that they didn't know to connect and talk to the doctor about.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:17:01.954)
Oh wow, yeah, that is wild, because that is some real insider info. Like I would have never, I know a lot of medical professionals also probably would not have looked there right at the get-go. That's...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:17:15.512)
Evidently it's a really common symptom of undiagnosed diabetes. I didn't have that on my radar. That was not on my bingo card. You know? And so...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:17:18.254)
thing.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:17:25.922)
Huh, well now I do too. And this is why you should listen to all of the episodes out there, because you're gonna learn nuggets of information like this. That's wild. Yes.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:17:34.688)
Yeah, well...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:17:38.564)
Susie Gronski pelvic floor PT. I love that we got to talk, because each of these episodes have kind of a topic to them, but the thing is, it's like, if you look at it and you go, oh, I don't have prostate cancer, so I don't need to listen to Susie Gronski talk about pelvic floor PT post prostate cancer diagnosis. Then you missed a little.
cool little thing where she teaches us how to use penis pumps. Right? Penis pumps are super fun. Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:18:09.702)
Mm-hmm. Like that's the kind of beauty of it though. Oh, yes, they are. Yes, they are That's the fun of it though and why I like the structure of your podcast so much being so free form because it allows the experts this experts to just really play in the space and just share this Wealth of knowledge that they I mean we have so yeah, like it's worth
Digging through to find those kernels information that might pertain or help you or someone you love or know like It's worth having
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:18:48.044)
Yeah. Gosh, I could like pull out like weird, like I loved in Mish Middelmann's interview, he quoted this physiotherapist, I can't think of her name, a watch cock never comes. And I was like.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:19:07.542)
Mmm. A watched cock never comes. Yes. Just staring at it. It is.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:19:12.216)
Like there's a T-shirt, there's a T-shirt or a bumper sticker, something. There was another one, there's another one of those that I don't remember, I can't come to it right now, but I know there was another one where there was some quote from something and I was like, oh my God, that's a great one. And I, oh, I think it was maybe Joe Kort had a good one, trying to remember what it was.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:19:21.25)
It's true, it's so true.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:19:38.531)
Mmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:19:43.225)
I can't think of it. But like, I just, those little.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:19:44.354)
To find that, listen to that episode.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:19:48.548)
Joe Kort I love Joe Kort's episode because, Joe and I worked so hard to get that episode recorded because it was on, it's the final one, but it was on our recording where he's like, oh wait, you're the creator of Soft Cock Week? Like the two had not been put together. Like he had started liking Soft Cock Week stuff the first year.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:19:55.487)
Wasn't that the final one?
Yeah, that's the one I started listening to.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:20:07.24)
Click! Uh, and you're like, yes, it's me.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:20:16.664)
I put in there that I'm connected, but Joe and I didn't have a relationship. So while a lot of people know me, not everyone knows me, even though it feels like it sometimes. And so we had I'd run into him at Psych Networker again. Place to be. And I had stopped him as he was walking past. It's like, hey, Joe, and like we had a quick, quick conversation. I said, I would love to talk to you about soft cock week And he said.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:20:20.5)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:20:33.287)
Great con.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:20:45.476)
call my office, set up a time with them. And I was like, okay, great. And so we ended up having a phone call to kind of talk about, you know, getting together to talk about Soft Cock Week. And then it just kept getting, we had to keep rescheduling it because time zones and he was traveling when he'd schedule it. But then, you know how that goes where you're like, your phone picks up the time zone you're in and then it doesn't really translate when you get back. We had a lot of work.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:21:07.303)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:21:13.2)
to make that one happen. And so when it did happen, I was like, thank you for trying, right? Because so many people would be like, this isn't gonna work. It's too much, it's too hard. I can't get it. We can't get our calendars to sync up right. And he didn't give up on it. And I was just so happy about that. And we got to have a really lovely conversation about sides, which is a term that he coined for gay men that don't like to top or bottom. And in that.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:21:18.56)
Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:21:41.032)
In that episode you talked about this could be for anybody that just isn't into intercourse for whatever reason And I was just like, oh, that's awesome Like thanks. I like the inclusion the inclusiveness of it. So Yeah, lots of really warm fuzzy feelings from the week And while I go, oh, it's so much work. Oh my god, it's so much work. I
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:21:50.659)
Hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:22:03.934)
It's so worth it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:22:05.188)
Kind of like having a baby at the end, you're like, but I have this baby and I forget all the work that it was and I can't wait for next year. Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:22:11.424)
I'm worth it, it's worth it. Now you're like, I wanna have another soft cock baby.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:22:17.908)
Right. So the glitch, so, you know, the first live event was from last year and this year was the soft opening, which is like a town hall kind of community space to talk about our experiences. We don't record that. That is about keeping everyone's privacy. We set the container. We lock the door kind of thing. We want to make sure everybody feels as safe as possible to talk openly in that space.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:22:47.822)
I love that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:22:48.952)
Amy Weisfeld and Peace Buffalo did an event the next night on Monday night, like, Soft Cock Shames 7 Strategies to Save Your Sex Life, I think was the title of it. And they intended to record it, and then they paused the recording for breakout rooms and forgot to start it back up again. So, we have like 20 minutes of it, and I'm going to put that out there in a follow-up resource email that's going to go out.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:23:08.748)
Oh no.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:23:13.741)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:23:18.368)
in the next few days. I'm waiting on something. This is the good and the bad and the sad. The last event was a soft cocktail mixer, which was here on Riverside. We got to have, it allowed for me plus seven guests and an unlimited audience. And we had seven guests on six rooms. So Amy and Peace were together.
all these screens going, we had some connection issues, but it should be okay, because the way Riverside works is that we're all kind of recording in our own space that gets uploaded continuously to the platform and gets combined. Yes. So I went in and I had it work its magic. I edited out basically the beginning and the end where we had some conversation about how this was gonna work.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:24:00.074)
localized host.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:24:16.34)
I hit exports and it comes out with a package that is shit. It is like me talking, like I remember in the beginning I said I was introducing myself and then I say, Phoenix, why don't you introduce yourself? And Phoenix starts this thanks Michelle and starts introducing themselves. And in the final process, it was like Michelle is in the, I'm in the middle of my introduction and then Phoenix is like, thanks Michelle and starts their introduction. So it's not.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:24:23.249)
Oh.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:24:46.594)
That's the issues. That's the issues Reddit said would happen occasionally. Overlap. Weird overlap.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:24:46.848)
sunk together right?
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:24:52.356)
So...
Yeah, I went, this was on, we recorded this on Saturday. So on Sunday morning, I do this and I go to Marco Polo, one of my favorite apps amongst my close friends. And I'm like, my friend Steph will be readily available to listen to me cry. Cause I just was like, I just need a place to fall apart and be frustrated and scream and kick and cry about this.
Steph comes back with, you know, I love playing with audio. Why don't you send me the files over and maybe I can sort this out. And then I cried some more because I was not that, I didn't know that about Steph, right? So right now, as of Thursday, November 16th at 11 36 a.m. Pacific time, I am waiting for Steph to come back with something and I'm trying not to like poke
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:25:31.214)
Angel. Amazing. I'm so excited.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:25:38.023)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:25:54.036)
in come on I want this at a certain time. I'm just grateful that they're volunteering to help me sort this out.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:26:00.298)
Heck yeah. Make sure you sent her all of the localized separate audio files too. Okay, perfect. That's Steph. Thank you. Thank you so much. That is so sweet. I adore that. That oh my god. Like it reminds me of if you're depressive and a friend comes over and cleans your house for you or helps clean your house. I used to do that for my friends too. It's the same kind of thing where you're like I am overwhelmed. I am in that space and they're like here.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:26:04.951)
I did.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:26:11.866)
Yeah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:26:30.218)
I've got you, I can take that. Yeah, see, look at that. Look at these beautiful moments that you've had in this process to celebrate that. Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:26:30.928)
talk about gratitude.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:26:38.756)
Yeah. So I think we're going to be okay. I mean, I think we have the files. It was just, it was a lot of work to download each file and then put them in my Google Drive so that stuff could access them. I'm over my limit with Google. They're like, you need to upgrade your package. And I'm like, I'm not going to keep these files here. Well, they give me 14-day grace period, so I'm okay. But so when this comes out, know that
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:26:48.371)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:26:56.834)
Just open a different email. Just send it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:27:07.448)
Like if you hear this and you were over on the soft cock week fan side, like it's coming. My old tagline was it's coming or not and that's okay too. But we're trying real hard. It's a delayed response. Don't watch it. It's like this is the beauty. The underlying message of soft cock week is...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:27:15.361)
The soft cock is coming. It's all right.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:27:23.746)
Don't watch it though. A watched cock never comes. Don't watch out for it. Just let it happen.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:27:36.832)
I want you to be able to show up in sexual situations, no matter how your penis shows up. We just want to roll with it and get off the sexual escalator. And I listened to Get Naked with Dr. Kate Balasteri, I think is how you pronounce her last name. She had a...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:27:42.848)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:27:49.922)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:27:56.534)
Yeah, you didn't you send me one of those episodes Yeah, it was a really good one Khalil Khalil. Yeah, something like that
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:28:01.468)
was this episode. She had David Kalili, I think is his last name. I think there was an extra. Anyways, I don't know. Put it in the show notes.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:28:11.822)
Phenomenal guest, phenomenal guest.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:28:14.956)
Yeah, I talked to him on Monday. Monday, you had a conversation. We had a quick call. We're recording soon. We hit it off, yeah. But he talked a lot about like circular, like the circular.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:28:24.718)
That's awesome. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:28:36.532)
was like linear sex, circular sex. And so he kind of described it as a 70s rotating bed.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:28:40.382)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:28:46.077)
Mmm, ha ha, yes.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:28:47.36)
and all the different sex things around the edge. And anyways, so he's coming out. I don't think we're gonna talk about that. He is very much an attachment geek. Like that's his forte is attachment styles.
I know, right? I'm like, we could geek out about that.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:29:04.138)
I love that. Sorry, my dog keeps pushing my table. As he lies down, he gets very dramatic and starts shoving things. So if you see like a earthquake happening, viewers, or hear it, that's Brickstaffer being passive aggressive.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:29:13.264)
It's okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:29:20.528)
That's okay. That's what puppies do. Yeah, so anyways, that interview happened during the week of soft cock week. And I was like, this is like a great interview for soft cock week. And so I'll put it in the show notes for all the things too because we had a great conversation and I feel very aligned with him. And so again, I feel like as I'm getting to know this podcast I kind of don't want to come in with a agenda.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:29:22.042)
Yep.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:29:30.722)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:29:35.17)
So exciting.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:29:47.158)
Just free form, like, it's a lab. Labs are for experiments. Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:29:51.932)
Yeah. And I mean, you and I could come back and just literally answer, we're not really strangers cards and fill a 45 minute. Because we're at.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:30:01.97)
Easily, we easily did like two hours talking. Oh yeah, it's kind of what we do, you know? Absolutely, I'm always down for that. I love talking. You know, it's odd, just random note, I notice that when I talk to you in Zoom format or whatever we're on, I always look at you. Most times, I'm not gonna lie, I like looking at my face.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:30:05.637)
We're at an hour and a half right now, so. Yeah. That's what I want. That's what I've wanted for this podcast.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:30:30.378)
So I'll look at my face, which is why I position my little camera view up here, so it kind of looks like I'm looking up at the camera. But I look at you very genuinely when we talk. I enjoy our conversations so thoroughly, so thoroughly.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:30:42.104)
And I love that we can record them because I have so many, this is, I've always said, I've had these friendships where I'm like, we get off a call and it'll be like fucking two hours later, right? And I'm like, man, if we could have recorded that and shared that, there's so much richness in there. And so I just wanna know who are the people that I have really great conversations with who are cool with me recording our conversations and sharing them because that is my ultimate fantasy.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:30:52.032)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:30:57.69)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:31:03.997)
Mm-hmm.
I love that.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:31:10.59)
I mean, I think you're kind of living it out. I think that's what intimacy lab is kind of organically becoming on its own kind of volition. I love that. Mm-hmm. We're experimenting kind of like we do with the circular bed of sex toys.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:31:15.312)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm figuring it out. So.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:31:29.584)
There's a diagram of the circular sex. David has a couple of books. So I went as a good geeky fan girl does. I purchased, he has a men's mental health workbook, which I was very curious about because I do work with a lot of men who maybe are hesitant to do talk therapy. And I think the workbook.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:31:36.434)
Ooh.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:31:54.55)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:31:58.26)
is a really great way to maybe take some inventory of where you might need support. Yeah. And then he also has a guide for like, when you have anxiety with sex, which is a couple of my current clients. And so I was like, I need to know what's in this guide, right? And there's some exercises in there that I look forward to kind of workshopping and seeing how they, they...
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:32:01.61)
Mm-hmm. I'm actually gonna do check that out then too.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:32:11.957)
Oh.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:32:18.42)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:32:27.6)
play out in real life in the lab.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:32:30.366)
in the lab. I look forward to seeing all that you become and what you continue to create. It's all going to be wonderful. It always is. Keep following your yes. Absolutely.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:32:40.76)
Keep following the yes.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:32:46.272)
It won't, I don't think it will steer you wrong.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:32:48.41)
No, honestly, it hasn't. I mean, I've tried to work when I'm in my no, and it just doesn't happen. Like that is the, or what I produce is just such utter crap. It is so forced. It is so, it's a very constipated feeling, like creatively constipated. And I, but when you're in your yes, like everything flows, the doors open, things just kind of reveal themselves and it's, it's a lovely place to be. I feel like it's.
It lets you know that you're on the right track, on the right path.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:33:22.764)
Well, and I think that it's about not letting anything in life become inflexible. Right? Like right now we're coming up on the end of 2023 and I'm like, what a great time to figure out some, like I'm going through and I'm auditing some of my policy and for my, my practice, right? Doing a little bit of a price increase.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:33:30.906)
Mm-hmm. Be like water.
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:33:44.814)
Mm-hmm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:33:51.576)
because it's really good practice, right? I'm, mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:33:53.571)
Mm-hmm. It is, like taking this time, instead of like just kind of creating these sometimes unachievable goals that we think we should be doing, like let's go to the gym, let's do this thing. Just taking a, like you said, an audit, like a tally of what you already have, and refreshing it, pruning it like a plant, and seeing like, where can this grow? What can I let go of? Yeah.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:34:16.152)
Well, I've grown, right? And my policy needs to grow, you know, where I see my cancellation policy, something really, you know, all the little fine details, right? Oh yeah, I wanna change my cancellation policy. I wanna change my rate. Oh, I wanna restructure this certain offering, right? Because I've changed and my work, like how do I see my work changes all the time?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:34:24.506)
Mm. Logistics.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:34:34.581)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:34:43.016)
Mm.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:34:43.872)
And so, like I said, the declaration, I want to have an office by the end of this next year. Oh, how does that change some of the other things that I'm doing in my work? So I don't know where I was going with that, but oh, the lab, I guess, is another, the Intimacy Lab podcast is another one of those things where I'm figuring it out as I go. So.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:34:55.267)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:35:02.988)
Mm-hmm.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:35:07.282)
Yeah, that's a good way to be. It's kind of what I'm doing too with all of my little projects and even my business. And honestly, my life, it's a good practice to be fluid.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:35:17.528)
Yeah, if you think you're gonna figure it out and then you get to put a little period at the end of it.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:35:22.45)
Mm-hmm. There's like, there's a certain brittleness to rigidity, right? They use this, this analogy of like a rigid surface, like noodles, you know, you crack them and they break. Because they're, they're trying to be so firm in their structure instead of like water. Water makes it everywhere. Water gets into nearly everything until it's sealed. Like there's, or something that's...
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:35:26.55)
Nah.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:35:52.226)
really nice and moisturized like your skin. Dry skin cracks because it's rough and then softened skin is nice and malleable. There's something to being fluid. There's something wise in going with the flow of where things take you. Like if you have a set idea of what something's supposed to look like, you're really limiting yourself. Whereas I always say your compass is oriented in the right direction. Just feel free to walk that way and take whatever paths.
speak to you at that time and you will be where you need to be when you need to be at that time. Yeah, that's my mantra. Yes, it does.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:36:28.452)
And that ties us back to softcock week.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:36:34.016)
You know, you don't need rigidity in your life.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:36:36.71)
You don't you it's good to be malleable. Yes, I love that.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:36:41.932)
Yeah, the rigidity, if you think that that's required, you're missing out, right? You're just losing out on opportunities. Yep, yep, okay.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:36:47.838)
You're limiting yourself. So check out soft cock week. I love you too.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:36:54.464)
I love you, Adelina. Yeah, check out SoftCockWeek.com and get on the newsletter. And.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:37:00.014)
Mm-hmm. Get on the newsletter, listen to the podcast, support.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:37:06.068)
Adelina, I look forward to seeing you over on Sex Explorations.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:37:09.722)
Yes! With Explorations this Monday we are recording and probably by the end of my yeses it'll be released sometime in November. So take a look out for that when it happens and I'll announce it on my Instagram.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:37:27.344)
That reminds me, I'm on a new show, a new season of an old show, sorry. I recorded an episode for a show that I can't say what it is because of contract shit. But I think I recall they said the episode would be coming out sometime this month and we are now halfway through the month. So if you're listening to this, you should probably also sign up for my newsletter so that when that drops, I can direct you towards it.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:37:29.91)
More?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:37:46.222)
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:37:53.012)
Mm-hmm
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:37:57.706)
I kind of have a newsletter. I don't really use it that much, unless I'm doing like a workshop or something. So yeah, you can go to my website and sign up for that too, or not, either way, it's okay.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:37:58.509)
all the newsletters.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:38:08.18)
or find us on social media. Adelina, where do they find you on social media?
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:38:09.598)
Yeah, find us. Once again, it's at ask Adi Adler, A-S-K-A-D-D-Y-A-D-L-E-R. And that's it.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:38:21.816)
And I'm at Meet Michelle Renne. And that's enough for today.
Adelina Adler (She/They) (01:38:27.298)
two E's at the end. That is enough for today. Take care everybody. You're lovely. Bye.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:38:31.555)
Alright.
Michelle Renee (she/her) (01:38:34.901)
Mm.
